ACC - Why automatically renew licences?

[firefighter]

So one test every 10 years is going to fix up them bad driving habits....... ? Tui

well I would say every 2-3 years, or less, but judging by your following comments, I doubt you would be a fan of that either. perhaps instead of pissing on plausible ideas, you could offer an even better alternative you have thought of? Im open to hearing it if you actually have something!I can see all you same advocating people whining about the cost of these tests in a few years and the tax and ACC levies being charged......

You people really are suckers for punishment.

Pissing on ideas without my own solution?

I did no such thing, I thought I was quite clear in the fact that I feel it's actually working fine as it is......and that no changes really need to be made.

I'm under enough scrutiny with my driving every day, without having to do a re-test.

Why are we so compelled to control each other? Just fucken live your life without adding more goddam rules.

Let Darwin take care of the rest.

It's bad enough that there's no cool fireworks anymore!

I did'nt realise there was such a huge skill fade with drivers that this need to be implemented.....hav'nt seen one statstic to back up anything either.

Just a whole lot of people jumping on a band-wagon because they can all drive/know the rules so much better than everyone else.

[The Stranger:Me]

Why are we so compelled to control each other? Just fucken live your life without adding more goddam rules.

Personally I draw the line at killing or maiming others.
By all means kill yourself, that's entirely your business and I won't interfere in that one at all.
Cars *frequently* kill or maim others, so my personal view, having a few rules/conditions aimed at reducing carnage is not necessarily a bad thing, though of course not necessarily good either - but worthy of consideration none the less.

[Headbanger]

So one test every 10 years is going to fix up them bad driving habits....... ? Tui

Not a test, Retraining.

Cost or not, Like it or not, Its a good idea.

[dipshit]

I think like most things in NZ, the standard of "training" would practically be a joke. Can you ride a figure of 8 around these cones... can you perform a hill start...

Congratulations, you're not a complete retard... you have just made the grade to be on NZ roads.

[Genestho]

Let Darwin take care of the rest.

Unfortunately 'Darwins Theory' does not rule out the innocent.
And I will tell you why...

Talking to my co-herent, Hubby before he died, explaining a scene. That I now dream frequently about.

Having held onto my husband as he died, feeling and looking at his injuries and scars, the mush of some of his bones, dressing his bloated, grey, stiff cold body - so he looked good in his coffin.

Id'ing a friend a pillion, thrown metres, with a smashed up body, and only imagining what our other friend looked like with severe head injuries, and a lost leg. All in one smash, via a recidivist 'indefinately disqualified' unlicensed drink driver, the car lent by an expired license owner.

This happens all the time. I have accumulated friends, many affected in the same manner, only many didn't have the luxury of Darwins Theory

The ripple effect from unnecasary smashes, is beyond your imagination.

Stranger is right, looking into sorting the licensing system out amongst education, and a few other things is worthy of consideration. We need it.

[firefighter]

via a recidivist 'indefinately disqualified' unlicensed drink driver.
This happens all the time.

Yes, a very sad story.

However we are'nt talking about drink driving, the education out there about drink driving is already sufficient.

Unfortunately, those who are going to drink drive will do it no matter what, especially recidivist scum, whom most of you who've read my rants will know i'd happilly have hung. However these people will not change, the education is there, we are just too scared to do the real enforcing needed to save others, by erradicating these monkeys which refuse to learn.

The ripple effect from unnecasary smashes, is beyond your imagination..

Actually, i've dealt with a lot of it. Largely professionally and a small amount personally.

Stranger is right, looking into sorting the licensing system out amongst education, and a few other things is worthy of consideration. We need it.

Sorry, but I feel it's not going to change anything. People drive the way they do, and will continue to do so, no matter how much training you give them, because they all know better......

Think about it: Police drink driving, F/Fighters, Ambo's. It happens everywhere. And they already get a hell of a lot of scrutiny placed on them and they way they drive, and a shit load more driver training than the average joe. Trust me.

But unfortunately there's still the odd dip-shit amoungst us who do it. Sad and embarrassing but it's true.

The real answer is in real punishment, that's the only thing that's going to scare them away from it. N.Z is far too soft to fathom taking a harder approach unfortunately.

[The Stranger:Me]

Sorry, but I feel it's not going to change anything. People drive the way they do, and will continue to do so, no matter how much training you give them, because they all know better......

Not that many years ago if you were caught drink driving the cop would more often than not tell you to go straight home. When you regaled your mates with how pissed you were when you drove home last night it was met with humour. If you actually got snapped for drink driving the cops were considered unreasonable by your peers.

My how we've changed.

It takes 10yrs to effect a social change. It can and does happen. Safety belts are another example.

Change can and does happen. It may take time, but without a start it doesn't happen.

Sure, you are correct, there will always be the numb nuts out there, that wont change, but you can reduce the number of them sometimes.

[firefighter]

Personally I draw the line at killing or maiming others.
By all means kill yourself, that's entirely your business and I won't interfere in that one at all.
Cars *frequently* kill or maim others, so my personal view, having a few rules/conditions aimed at reducing carnage is not necessarily a bad thing, though of course not necessarily good either - but worthy of consideration none the less.

Well yes obviously. As do I. I get to see the result first hand.

Not a test, Retraining.

Cost or not, Like it or not, Its a good idea.

I truely believe that people will only go back to what they're doing straight after any re-training or testing.

Think about it, I bet you changed the way you rode for your licence testing.....right?
Should'nt you have just ridden like always? You know, staying AT the speed limit-not 10 over, dilengently indicating, head-checking, exaggerrating it all, more than you ever really would for real. I mean, be honest.

I bet you sped on your last ride?

[Headbanger]

Sorry, but I feel it's not going to change anything. People drive the way they do, and will continue to do so, no matter how much training you give them, because they all know better......

Think about it: Police drink driving, F/Fighters, Ambo's. It happens everywhere. And they already get a hell of a lot of scrutiny placed on them and they way they drive, and a shit load more driver training than the average joe. Trust me.

Currently there is next to no training, training people in correct operation will increase the standard of driving dramatically. Hell I see it constantly when I send people off to do training for tasks we do at work.

Just because some assholes will continue to cause grief is no reason to ignore the situation until it all goes to hell.

[Genestho]

However we are'nt talking about drink driving, the education out there about drink driving is already sufficient.
No I am discussing licenses. The whole reason I posted what I did relates to licensing issues.

Probably rude of me to remind with an emotive story. But the fact he was a drunk is a side issue, I add that because that's just a fact, ON TOP of being unlicensed, ontop of having a car lent by another unlicensed driver.

I disagree that dd education is sufficient.

Read the front page of the Herald, ALAC advising the public - male and female can have X amount of booze, before reaching a limit. Never mind we're all differing Weights/Mental Health/Physical Health/Liver Health. I saw nothing regarding the livers expellation rate compares to one standard drink per hour -based on a healthy liver?
How many kiwis have been bingedrinking and have hammered their livers - therefore expellation rate is less? Raising BAC limits quickly under those conditions!
Liver expellation is a test question in the Hospo Industry Exam for Bar Duty Managers, which I passed, that had to have backing by ALAC for Industry standards!

Why the Governing Body over alcohol would be advising MOT or the public this in such basic terms, ignoring the variables - makes no sense.

However - a side issue again, sorry to digress

But unfortunately there's still the odd dip-shit amoungst us who do it. Sad and embarrassing but it's true.

Yup.
Apathy is also a sad sight. From a Firefighter, I'm almost surprised. And I don't accept that there is an allowance for crap driving amongst my fellow road users, or the ease with which our licensing system conducts itself.

[firefighter]

Change can and does happen. It may take time, but without a start it doesn't happen.

Sure, you are correct, there will always be the numb nuts out there, that wont change, but you can reduce the number of them sometimes.

Certainly, and contrary to how I sound, (reading my own posts lol) i'm most definitely open to change.

However the real education and proper training needs to be embedded at the start, before these habits start.

L platers for eg should really be learning from an instructor only, not mum and dad-who hypocritically try and force their children to drive properly after teaching them bad habits for years......

[Genestho]

However the real education and proper training needs to be embedded at the start, before these habits start.

Addressing that - I'd like to see compulsary Road Safety classes in schools.
Pre licensing.

[Chrislost]

Another thread I'm sure will be un-popular.

I was thinking about the large number of riders who return to the bike after having a break for a long time, sometimes decades.

And then I was thinking, why do our licences re-new after 10 years without having to do anything?

What about the idea of having people attend some kind of "re-education" class before they can re-new their licence? A bit like how you have to re-new your PADI diving certificate every now and then.

And perhaps if you don't do some type of re-education your licence simply suspends until you do. Then if they don't ride for 30 years you can be reasonably confident that they'll attend some kind of training.

And for those who ride all the time - what harm will it do?

And so you say, they'll just ride with a suspended licence. I'm sure some will. But I suspect most will want insurance - and you can't get that without a licence for on-road use (and least, you can't get a pay out).
Also they are more likely to get nasty fines if stopped by the Police.

So what say all of you? Another bad idea, or it has some merit?

Im sure it will cost a couple of hundred for the RE-EDUCATION.
and what are they going to teach us? the defensive driving course was aimed 110% at cars and -10% at bikes...
In fact, the hazzard identification part or the course i failed cos i was picking oil on the road, cars at stop signs(that lookd like they were guna pull out, honest!), and white lines on the road as hazzards rather than pedestrians that were walking on the sidewalk etc.

Even somone returning to motorcycling isnt going to benifit from it.
Said returning rider could well benifit from a track day to find out just how fucking fast bikes go before they start to shake and do things that their old BSA used to do, and how suddenly it happens in comparison...

[firefighter]

Yup.
Apathy is also a sad sight. From a Firefighter, I'm almost surprised

Funny you should say that. From wiki;

"Often, apathy has been felt after witnessing horrific acts, such as the killing or maiming of people"

I would'nt call it apathy. Just indifference. lol. (joke) It's hard to see the same old story over and over, and believe that these same people will ever change.

Addressing that - I'd like to see compulsary Road Safety classes in schools.
Pre licensing.

Now we're talking...... Defensive driving as part of your learners or restricted also would be a good start.

[p.dath]

...
I truely believe that people will only go back to what they're doing straight after any re-training or testing.

Think about it, I bet you changed the way you rode for your licence testing.....right?
...

I agree, I bet nearly everyone rides more carefully when sitting the actual test, but that doesn't mean they haven't learned to do something new from the training they got.

But I don't think people will necessarily revert to bad riding techniques "just because". Sur eif you have it ingrained in you it will be harder to change, but consider the below cases.

With training, particularly bike training, if you learn a new skill it often makes riding easier and smoother, so you want to keep doing it that way (e,g. learning to corner better). Same happens when you learn a better way of doing something you have always done differently.

Lets take another skill. Emergency braking. Training to do it on any new bike is probably a good idea, because chances are any new bike will handle different to your last bike.


Then their is academic training (where you just get told something and have to process the message in your brain). Like don't drink till you can barely stand and then decide to go for a ride.
If you are a habitual drink rider then you probably just don't care, or lack the will power to make a positive change in your life.


So I don't think all re-training is a waste of time, particularly skills based. I do concur that some people can't be "told" what to do (such as don't drink and ride).

But overall, I certainly don't think we should give up on re-training just because it wont "take" for some people.