Would you ride a Hybrid?

[CookMySock]

I know, fossil fuels will never ever run out (unless this planet blows up)

When all the fossil fuels have gone, I'm gunna throw a match in the big hole thats left.

Steve

[rainman]

The polution form motor vehicles is reletively miniscule and the heavy focus on the motorist is to divert attention from addressing the actual causes.

Isn't transport CO2 emission about 30% of our total emissions? Hang on, lemme check...

All measurements Gg CO2-e, from 2007 (latest?) inventory:
Road transport is 14,877.2. That's of 32,653.1 for total energy. RT is most of all transport, but I haven't got the exact % handy. There doesn't seem to be a breakdown by transport use - personal transport, trucking, etc but I guess that would be hard to define clearly.
Agriculture is 36,430.
Total emissions is 75,550.

So, Road Transport 19.7%, Total Transport 43.2%, Total Agriculture 48.2% of the total. And Road Transport on it's own is up 76% since 1990.

Of course agriculture is mostly CH4 and transport CO2, so we're comparing apples with apple equivalents, however transport is a big deal. And it's cars and trucks (and bikes, I guess), not planes and trains. That high growth rate (and the relative technical ease of a solution) means it's a good place to start when it comes to emissions reduction. Unless of course we can invent CO2 filtering buttplugs for ruminants.

BTW: Apparently the gasses coming out of Kiwi sheep and cows is a H U G E problem. Either we want to eat and export meat or we don't.

We all need to eat less meat - however sad that may be. I'm not at all averse to a good veggie meal but I am decidedly omnivorous. The fixation with destructive dairy needs to be fixed, too. That said, we do fairly depend on the export revenue, so it will be tough to reinvent ourselves.

[Conquiztador]

In that case: If eating lentils will keep us on the petrol bikes then I say:

LENTILS FOR EVERYONE MORNING MIDDAY AND NIGHT!!

[idleidolidyll]

Hell yes!

But I reckon when electric bikes finally find the range they need, we'll be spoilt rotten. The torque of an electric is legendary.

There's also compressed air power and with frictionless bearings, perhaps even storage motors that are spun up to 200,000 revs and computer controlled to redeliver that to the back wheels as required.

I think the future of motorcycles looks great; it's really only the sounds that may go the way of the dodo.

[SMOKEU]

I'm sticking with petrol power, after all you can't turbo an electric motor and chuck an external gate on it can you?

[Insanity_rules]

When they get good enough for Ducati to make one then I might consider it.

[bogan]

Hell yes!

But I reckon when electric bikes finally find the range they need, we'll be spoilt rotten. The torque of an electric is legendary.

There's also compressed air power and with frictionless bearings, perhaps even storage motors that are spun up to 200,000 revs and computer controlled to redeliver that to the back wheels as required.

I think the future of motorcycles looks great; it's really only the sounds that may go the way of the dodo.

compressed air is a bit lossy i think, flywheels i can see hapening, very high power, and very fast charging, also no "battery memory". Electric bikes can also have quite a bit of motor whine, usualy it controlled at a frequency to remove it, but you could run it with noise just as easy

I'm sticking with petrol power, after all you can't turbo an electric motor and chuck an external gate on it can you?

You can overcurrent/overvolt them, or put some regen on it.

[crash harry]

Wow - go away for a few days and look what happens... I really didn't expect such an agressive response from some... let me see if I can put some context on this one.

I'm an incurable engineer. As such, I can't help designing things almost constantly. At the moment the pet project kicking around in my heaad that may or may not see the light of day if and when I get time is a kind of internal combustion generator - it's not a million miles different from other generators and there are some people out there working on the same general idea, but it has the potential to be more efficient than existing designs. Only drawback for using it as an engine design in a conventional motor vehicle is no rotating shaft output, just electrical energy.

No problems says me, electric motor output with no gearbox and bob's your uncle, perfect commuter vehicle. The idea as it stands would probably work best at the 10kW and under sort of level, so that really rules out cars - and cruisers and sport bikes really, but commuters? Perfect application I thought.

So I was talking to a friend about it, his position was that bikers would never go there. Not one. Ever. Because we're an anti-establishment bunch (probably fairly accurate on average...). But I know I would if the performance was OK. Electric motors have some pretty cool torque characteristics too - flat torque curve in the current-limited region, then flat power curve in the voltage-limited region. That's max torque from zero with no clutch and no gearbox to worry about. And no burning fuel while you're waiting at the lights.

Sooooo.... given all of that, does that change the picture at all?

[davereid]

In that case: If eating lentils will keep us on the petrol bikes then I say: LENTILS FOR EVERYONE MORNING MIDDAY AND NIGHT!!

Scientific American calculated that a bowl of breakfast cereal was equivalent to a 7km trip in an SUV...

So even lentils won't save the planet while population grows.

Just dont beathe out.. its the breathing out that does the damage...

[crash harry]

Ooo look, another poll that defines only to OP's prejudices.

How about: I won't ride a hybrid because they are less "green" than a decent turbo diesel.

I also know plenty of "sport riders" and "tourers" who commute.

I'm pretty sure they think of themselves as motorcyclists, not some niche fashionista.

Wow. You're quick off the mark with the hate aren't you?
I wasn't asking bout turbo deisels though was I? But just specially for you James, would you ride a turbo deisel (commuting bike)? I suspect not.

An for the record, I commute on an R1 every day rain, hail or shine, so I am that sport rider who commutes. I'm still only really interested in the opinions of people who DO or WOULD commute, not people who only ride the coro GP at the speed of sound, or who consider a trek from Whangarei to Ashburton almost long enough to bother with - they're not the target market are they?

[crash harry]

By Hybrid, I presume the thread is specifically referring to motorcycles.

My answer has to be 'NO'.
If you want better economy, get a smaller bike or a second bike for commuting.
You can buy a very cheap commuting bike and use bugger all fuel to get to work.
Slightly more OR slightly less fuel than a Hybrid (probably less).
Q. Has anyone here seen what you do to a malfuctioning Hybrid?
A. If there is no mechanical warrantee to pay for the multi $000 repair bill, then you just throw it away.

These extremely complex Hybrids are outstandingly expensive to fix and not at all enviromentally friendly.
Maybe one day the technology will be robust and managable.
That might be a better time to restart the debate as to why you should justify trebbling the weight of your bike's drive mechanism.

So, paraphrasing your post, you would potentially be interested in a system that was

• Simple in concept
• Repairable by normal people (ie - your local mechanic or a clued-up mate)
• Not significantly heavier than an internal combustion engine based design
• Competitively priced

If I understand you correctly, you're not against the idea as such but the current implementations don't measure up to your expectations? (sorry about the leading question, but I'm actually interested in people's opinions here)

[Whynot]

Sooooo.... given all of that, does that change the picture at all?

I guess the more pertinent question is .....
how well do they stand up in a crash?

[crash harry]

I guess the more pertinent question is .....
how well do they stand up in a crash?

Srsly dude, I haven't crashed anything since... like more than 6 months ago. Oh shit, that means I'm due...

[bogan]

Wow - go away for a few days and look what happens... I really didn't expect such an agressive response from some... let me see if I can put some context on this one.

I'm an incurable engineer. As such, I can't help designing things almost constantly. At the moment the pet project kicking around in my heaad that may or may not see the light of day if and when I get time is a kind of internal combustion generator - it's not a million miles different from other generators and there are some people out there working on the same general idea, but it has the potential to be more efficient than existing designs. Only drawback for using it as an engine design in a conventional motor vehicle is no rotating shaft output, just electrical energy.

No problems says me, electric motor output with no gearbox and bob's your uncle, perfect commuter vehicle. The idea as it stands would probably work best at the 10kW and under sort of level, so that really rules out cars - and cruisers and sport bikes really, but commuters? Perfect application I thought.

So I was talking to a friend about it, his position was that bikers would never go there. Not one. Ever. Because we're an anti-establishment bunch (probably fairly accurate on average...). But I know I would if the performance was OK. Electric motors have some pretty cool torque characteristics too - flat torque curve in the current-limited region, then flat power curve in the voltage-limited region. That's max torque from zero with no clutch and no gearbox to worry about. And no burning fuel while you're waiting at the lights.

Sooooo.... given all of that, does that change the picture at all?

haha, many topics on kb will bring out the hate; politics, acc, change, bikes ......

A good idea, I have though about adding a 2kw generator on the pillion seat of my electric once I get it running to add to the range, but I think your idea sounds a bit more professional. I agree a 10kw generator is a good size to start, would work well with an Etek-rt, 72V brushed dc motor with 20hp peak and 10 continuous, and possibly some supercaps though I don't know bugger all about them, have a chat about it with the techs at http://electricmotorcycleforum.com

One hole I do see, is if the bike is meant for commuters, what is the advantage of a hybrid, over a plug in electric?

[MarkH]

Dunno about any "hybrid" (petrol+electric) bike. That would be as silly as a prius!

I have to agree 100% with this. Why carry an IC engine, batteries & an electric motor?

Surely for short range commuting you will get MUCH better performance out of a straight electric bike than a hybrid. As the power storage technology improves (LiMn, LiFePO, super capacitors) we will be able to travel further and have more power available. If I can charge a scooter overnight and get around Auckland throughout the day with 20+KW of power available - why not? A hybrid is stupidly complex mechanically compared to a plug in electric - if super capacitors can live up to the hype then we could be looking at a tiny running cost for electric. Imagine changing motor brushes every couple of years + new tyres and practically nothing else apart from a few cents a day worth of electricity. If the super capacitors can last for decades without needing to be replaced like they claim then they will be more environmentally friendly and save a lot of money.

I would love to have a nice 650cc petrol powered bike to ride on the weekend and a 20KW electric scooter to commute on during the week.

But hybrid, like a Toyota Pre-arse? I don't think so.