How I ride is perceived by others...

[Macontour]

I think we all love the freedom, wind in the hair, manoeuvreability, speed, acceleration and handling of our bikes and most of will use those advantages reasonably often on the road whether it is to just get the adrenaline buzz or to blast past a line of slow moving cars.

If we saw someone in a "boy racer" car doing the same thing we would probably bitch and moan, shake our fists, swear and dial *555 to dob them in!

Sometimes we are hypocrirtes aren't we?

[YellowDog]

I judge everyone else on the road all of the time. It is how I stay safe.

If I see a biker gaining speed on a car, indicate, swingout, and then swing in again with plenty of space for a safe overtake; then I say "well done".

If I see the same thing done with heaps of braking and without good control, then I say "get off the road moron".

I judge everyone else by my ownstandards. Sure I ride too fast, but only when the conditions say that I can do it safely. I always nod at Police motorcyclists and generally get the same back.

However good or bad we are, it is our ability to read and respond to a given road situation that governs our own personal survival rate.

We all make mistakes and most of us get the chance to learn from them.

Keep learning guys. Rubber side down!

[PrincessBandit]

...

Because I chopped down a gear and flew past that Granny in her Corolla doing 80 on the open road, does that make me an idiot? I never went over 110kph, but I passed her. Sure there was a bend in the road ahead, but I knew there was heaps of room to make that pass easily, and safely. How did she feel about it? Perhaps I scared the snot out of her and I am now confined to the "bloody idiot" category too?

In that particular scenario it's not the speed that would be the issue. What would put you into the "idiot" category IMO would be things like doing it with an incredibly noisy bike (sounding more like a jet engine than a bike), while passing with bare centimetres clearance from her side panels, and doing it having come up so fast behind her that you truly "came out of nowhere" and blitzed her.

To counter these points: you're not aiming to scare her shitless with noise (although the poor old dear probably didn't have her hearing aid in anyway), you give ample clearance so that you don't appear to be aiming to become a wing mirror ornament, and that your initial speed was such that if she checked her mirrors - like all good motorists are supposed to - she would have been aware of your presence.

Unfortunately most of these points are fairly subjective and everyone differs on degree and measurement.

You can never account for irrational people who would be frightened of their own shadow and shouldn't be behind the wheel of a car. (One assumes that anyone like that wouldn't survive long enough on a bike to be a rider).

hahaha, took me so long to type this, due to constant distractions, that I should've just waited for YellowDog's post. I agree with him!!

[bogan]

I judge everyone else on the road all of the time. It is how I stay safe.

Totally agree with that, and has saved me having to perform a more than a few Oh Shit maneuvers.

With regards to the granny pass, a quick flick of the headlights should let her know you're about to pass, and i agree with princessbandit, itll be the noise that pisses her off the most, had another biker do it to me once, same lane full noise pass, i was not happy, and let him know about too; just throttle off a bit when you go past.

In general I think riding with the "do unto others" is a good plan.

One of the grey areas I wonder about is where bikers are going faster than cagers normally would and therefor require another cage to give way, the cager doesn't always give way, because of incorrectly assuming the bike is going as fast as other traffic.

For example, quite often at roundabouts I have plenty of visibility and come through quickly, a cager will pull out, forcing me to slow down a bit. They pulled out because they thought I was going slower as most other traffic does in the same situation, I know I was riding well within my limit of safety, but if I got on the horn the cager would probly think I was an idiot biker hooning about, so I just slow, let them through, and be on my way.

The way I see it theres no point forcing the issue in minor/grey situations like this, because if the cage thinks they are in the right, then you just end up with another cager disliking bikes.

[Mom]

you give ample clearance so that you don't appear to be aiming to become a wing mirror ornament, and that your initial speed was such that if she checked her mirrors - like all good motorists are supposed to - she would have been aware of your presence.

Interesting comment. See, I am of the come up behind someone and wait a bit to see if it is safe to overtake brigade. I dont place myself at risk on purpose eh. I will choose my moment and then take it as quickly, and as safely as I possibly can. I hear you about the unexpected biker that appears out of seemingly nowhere and scares the crap out of you.

I have to say though, I favour loud pipes! Not obnoxiously loud ones mind, the straight ones that flatten grass 2 sections down the road when you fire up are not cool IMO, but a bit of good, loud, crisp noise is one of the best things a bike can have. At least they hear you even if they dont see you

[hospitalfood]

i agree with others that if you drive to slow you're an idiot, and if you overtake the slow driver you are a hoon. the important thing to remember is :-

hospitalfood = idiot.

mom = sweet rider.

[Gremlin]

Everyone slower than me is a thoughtless idiot and everyone faster is a maniac.

It really does boil down to this...

Sure, 200 through traffic in a residential suburb is obviously stupid, but I think trying to define the stuff much closer to "normal" (yet to be determined and rather hard) is actually very hard.

Doing 70-80 in the fast lane on the motorway for no real reason, could be seen as dangerous, as cars will try to undertake in other lanes, may need to speed, dodge other slow cars etc. The person in the fast lane may think the ones trying to pass are dangerous.

Who is right, and who has the authority to be right? Who determines who has the authority to pass judgement?

We have license tests, general consensus is they are too easy. We have laws, general consensus is they cater to the lowest common denominator. So we basically have people who shouldn't really be driving, on the road, yet not really breaking any laws (despite pissing of a fair portion of the population).

[CookMySock]

Who is right, and who has the authority to be right? Who determines who has the authority to pass judgement?

Thats is a really good rhetorical question, and I reckon it summarises the thread perfectly.

Many people on the road (and in life) somehow position themselves to have full command on what judgement gets passed, when and where. Fortunately, that means jack to me. It's curious watching the enraged look on their face when they realise their pointed opinion has fallen on deaf ears and I will not comply with their request. They can cast their disparaging remarks all they like, and it will only injure their own self-esteem, not mine.

Conversely, it is not my position to expect any person to comply with my wishes at any time. I learned some time ago, that if there was something I didn't like, the sooner I got MY head around it - the better. So I shifted my own thinking so their actions didn't affect me.

It's like the neighbours rooster crowing at 5am when you live in the country. You can't do shit about it, and its not going to go away, so you will have to change how you think about it or life is going to be very hard.

The same applies on the road. You cant change people, and you can't make them do anything, so give up on the idea now. The same applies in your relationships too.


Steve

[jono035]

I think we all love the freedom, wind in the hair, manoeuvreability, speed, acceleration and handling of our bikes and most of will use those advantages reasonably often on the road whether it is to just get the adrenaline buzz or to blast past a line of slow moving cars.

If we saw someone in a "boy racer" car doing the same thing we would probably bitch and moan, shake our fists, swear and dial *555 to dob them in!

Sometimes we are hypocrirtes aren't we?

I had a similar argument with my sister when it became apparent that she had absolutely no qualms about calling *555 over people doing things that I had seen her do plenty of times (slightly dodgy overtaking, tailgating, not paying attention and wandering in the lane). Her reply was basically 'well it's ok because I know what I'm doing and its safe'...

Since then I've tried to drive in a way that is closer to my perception of acceptable for other, random road users, not just myself.

DB: That's an interesting one about the neighbours rooster. That is a thin line kind of thing though. As the stupid extreme case, if your neighbours were pretty much nocturnal and had their concert level stereo on all night playing music you hated to the point where it seriously affected your ability to sleep, would you consider that reasonable? For me the rooster is on the level of "just get used to it" but everyone has their own thresholds for what is 'acceptable' to them. Some people may not care about the music but absolutely abhor the rooster...

[Nagash]

A quick note: Everything said in this post considers the drivers mentioned to be competent drivers with a degree of spacial awareness, just general poor drivers are a different matter.

A very smart person on here (I won't name them) once said to me that a hoon on the road has the advantage in an emergency situation, because they've most likely been in that situation before, so they know how to get themselves out of it.

While someone who always sticks to the speed limit, never does anything overly dangerous, and always drives safely, when they come into an emergency situation, they won't have any idea on how to get out of it.

That's considering that they don't take any driving courses, or practice emergency braking in a safe environment etc. etc. And I think this is true.


The same goes for boy racers I believe, while I absolutely hate their attitude to driving fast, I have seen them get themselves out of some amazing situations, along with bikers. Would they have gotten into that situation in the first place were their driving habits different? Possibly, but possibly not.

Whether or not the way you drive is perceived as dangerous, or what's being called in this thread 'stupid' it's difficult to discuss because they're different things.

It's been drilled into us since primary school what is generally considered 'safe' driving, and what is considered dangerous. I personally think that bikers who like to go fast or drive in a dangerous way, know deep down they are doing so, and that's probably where half the fun is.

However, whether or not the individual themself considers themselves to be stupid is completely different. It's unimportant whether someone else thinks they are stupid, because everyone has different views on what is stupid or not. The driver or rider themselves would probably have more difficulty accepting that they are an idiot, and honestly believe that they are being as safe as possible, while still driving in the manner they want to. Rarely is this true, and is more a degree of self delusion.

For example: I think I ride fast, though i've seen plenty of people ride faster. Some people who ride faster then me in a controlled, and skilled manner i'm envious of their ability, those who are faster then me but are all over the place I consider stupid. That said, i've considered some of those slower than me to be stupid aswell.

Which brings me rather neatly to my point: What we consider stupid, we base off our own driving stigma, in some way or another. Which renders it all rather null, cause someone sure as rain in winter is going to think that your driving is stupid.


Sorry for the long post.
tl;dr Just stare at this for a bit.. isn't it cool?!

[CookMySock]

Her reply was basically 'well it's ok because I know what I'm doing and its safe'...

hehe yeah, well we all know best don't we.

Since then I've tried to drive in a way that is closer to my perception of acceptable for other, random road users, not just myself.

The cool thing I have discovered about bikes is, very very quickly after some twat gets angry with me and decides to take have a go at me on the road - I am already long gone!! LOL. Then they can reconcile their feelings with their actions at their own pace - nothing to do with me. Maybe they can beat their mrs up or something, but its not my problem.

if your neighbours were pretty much nocturnal and had their concert level stereo on all night playing music you hated to the point where it seriously affected your ability to sleep, would you consider that reasonable?

Hell no. I'd go over there and kick their fucken speaker in LOL.

Nah seriously, the last time I had to deal with that, I went over there in my pajamas at 2am and drank heaps of their grog and told the saaaaaadest story you have everrrrrr heard in your life. I fucken nearly had them all in tears. They all went home after that. Whenever they had a loud party I'd turn up and do the same again. Their parties sucked after that and they gave up.

Steve

[rickstv]

Some times before overtaking I think to myself would I do this if the Ginger cop was watching, which makes me re evaluate my wish to overtake if there is even the slightest risk. Maybe it has kept me safe, who knows.
Rick

[crazyhorse]

I guess it comes down to each individual and their conscience. Good thread MOM

[duckonin]

Simply put , and idiot is one who "endangers" others, regardless of what they are doing, there are plenty of idiots in the world..

[CookMySock]

Everything said in this post considers the drivers mentioned to be competent drivers with a degree of spacial awareness, just general poor drivers are a different matter.

[....] a hoon on the road has the advantage in an emergency situation, because they've most likely been in that situation before, so they know how to get themselves out of it.

You should do a defensive driving course. You will see things a lot differently.

A good racer does not make a good driver. It would be fine if they developed their skills on the track, and then travelled on the road well within them, but that is not what happens at all.

More like, they develop their skills with your pissed teenage daughter in the back seat on her boyfriends lap.. and sometimes learn the hard way.

Steve