How I ride is perceived by others...

[slofox]

One little reality check. EVERY biker I know from a total novice to the rossi's of this world is or has been at one time that idiot we shake our heads at. Theres that monment you think back on and go "shit that was dumb"
Most of the time we "get away with it".
I've always though the measure of the man is how he reacts when he's stuffed up.

If I think I am a loon, then I probably am...and it happens often enough to keep me on my toes.

Yep - like the man says...

[2wheeldrifter]

In that particular scenario it's not the speed that would be the issue. What would put you into the "idiot" category IMO would be things like doing it with an incredibly noisy bike (sounding more like a jet engine than a bike), while passing with bare centimetres clearance from her side panels, and doing it having come up so fast behind her that you truly "came out of nowhere" and blitzed her.

To counter these points: you're not aiming to scare her shitless with noise (although the poor old dear probably didn't have her hearing aid in anyway), you give ample clearance so that you don't appear to be aiming to become a wing mirror ornament, and that your initial speed was such that if she checked her mirrors - like all good motorists are supposed to - she would have been aware of your presence.

Unfortunately most of these points are fairly subjective and everyone differs on degree and measurement.

I agree with PB

Am I perceived as an idiot on the road when riding??......... As little as I can be, Like Frosty has said "shit that was a dumb move" I made a misjudgement of the situation, (cagers now think I am an idiot, "fuckin biker"!!) so one bad move and I am labeled for life... or we bikers are?

But I am good safe rider!! I want to live, I am not a cat with nine live's! But I can tell you now.. Yes I will make another bad call one day... not that I want too, it's just that I am human and I make mistakes and others will see as "been an idiot".

I can't avoid the other idiots on the road, but just be ready for them and hope I am not distracted by a damn sneeze or something.

[mashman]

An idiot, to me, is someone who is just not paying attention to their surroundings, be it in a car, on foot, bike etc... As such they perform an idiotic action, earning them the tag of idiot through the lack of consideration shown towards those around them... If it's not an accident, then there's an idiot very very nearby... It's in how you pass, distance left between you and others, parking in a disabled spot when able bodied, all things that are purposeful concious actions...

[Marmoot]

If, by how you ride, there suddenly exist an idiot around you that can affect you and your motorcycle in a bad way (i.e., may cause you to crash) then you're the idiot.

It's that simple.

That includes a vehicle around you who may suddenly decide to be an idiot, or someone that is not currently there that suddenly decides to appear (e.g., a car popping out from a sideroad without looking).

Reserve is not a luxury. Reserve is a necessity.

[Edbear]

It is about time that a thread on taking personal responsibility for your actions on the road, and how those actions will impact the general populace and how they view us bikers in future, is actually given some considered and positive debate on here. All too often certain members with genuine and heartfelt opinions can railroad a discussion into a meaningless slanging match, often accompanied by abuse and red rep flying, coupled with a few infractions as a side dish.

Lets see if it is possible to have an adult, mature discussion on this. I am not interested in seeing shit talk in this thread, nor do I want to see abuse, or funny to some pisstaking, if you cant contribute in an adult way please refrain from saying anything.

So, ground rules established here goes.

I am sure that we would all agree that idiots on the road, whether they ride bikes or drive cars are the bain of our lives as we make our way from A to B on our bikes. I am equally as sure that we would all agree that being an idiot on the road does not look good to anyone.

What defines an idiot? Well I guess that all depends on where you sit on the "things that seem crazy to some people will be nothing to worry about to others" scale. How do we tell the difference when we are pootling along enjoying our own ride?

Because I chopped down a gear and flew past that Granny in her Corolla doing 80 on the open road, does that make me an idiot? I never went over 110kph, but I passed her. Sure there was a bend in the road ahead, but I knew there was heaps of room to make that pass easily, and safely. How did she feel about it? Perhaps I scared the snot out of her and I am now confined to the "bloody idiot" category too?

So, how do we tell? How do we mitigate the perceived image we portray when doing our thing, if we relegate ourselves to "idiot" status in all innocence?

Remember folks, this is a discussion for grown ups. Lets see if we can manage to behave in this thread as well as we would expect all bikers to behave on the road, with courtesy and respect.

GO!

Awww, okay, I'll try really hard...

In that particular scenario it's not the speed that would be the issue. What would put you into the "idiot" category IMO would be things like doing it with an incredibly noisy bike (sounding more like a jet engine than a bike), while passing with bare centimetres clearance from her side panels, and doing it having come up so fast behind her that you truly "came out of nowhere" and blitzed her.

To counter these points: you're not aiming to scare her shitless with noise (although the poor old dear probably didn't have her hearing aid in anyway), you give ample clearance so that you don't appear to be aiming to become a wing mirror ornament, and that your initial speed was such that if she checked her mirrors - like all good motorists are supposed to - she would have been aware of your presence.

Unfortunately most of these points are fairly subjective and everyone differs on degree and measurement.

You can never account for irrational people who would be frightened of their own shadow and shouldn't be behind the wheel of a car. (One assumes that anyone like that wouldn't survive long enough on a bike to be a rider).

hahaha, took me so long to type this, due to constant distractions, that I should've just waited for YellowDog's post. I agree with him!!

So true. I know I have startled drivers who's minds were anywhere but on their driving and while they should have known I was there they were completely oblivious until I was nearly past...

One little reality check. EVERY biker I know from a total novice to the rossi's of this world is or has been at one time that idiot we shake our heads at. Theres that monment you think back on and go "shit that was dumb"
Most of the time we "get away with it".
I've always though the measure of the man is how he reacts when he's stuffed up.

Usually with a sharp intake of breath and an "Oh Crap!" while either braking or swerving hard!

Unless, you mean afterwards, of course... I have slowed down a bit when lanesplitting after a couple of close calls lately. Now most I opine would blame the car driver for the near miss as they suddenly braked or swerved for no apparent reason, but I take responsibility for the flat-spots on my front and rear tyres and little credit for avoiding an impact.

Especially when lanesplitting, does one need to ride as though one is invisible and to expect drivers to act irrationally. The fact that that young lady in the Corolla didn't need to slam her brakes on at that moment and the reason she did was that she wasn't concentrating on the traffic ahead and got a wee fright to notice it had slowed causing her to hit the brake a bit harder than she normally would have, which meant I locked up the front and came about a mm away from hitting her left rear quarter as I was about to split past and had proceeded knowing I had minimum room between the two cars makes it my fault in my mind if I had hit her and been knocked under the car to my left. Whew!

I am always mindful of that old verse, "Here lies the body of William Gray, who died maintaining his right of way. He was right, dead right as he sped along, but now he's just a s dead as if he'd been dead wrong!"

So whether right or wrong, I ride to survive. It's little comfort to wag your finger at the other driver from your hospital bed or coffin...

[tigertim20]

not reading the whole thread, but to respond to Mom, My perspective is two fold.
One, there arent so much idiot drivers, more idiotic driving manouvres. I consider myself a good competent driver/rider, but am not 100% innocent, I have done the odd silly thing on the road, whether due to lack of thought, or genuinely not realising it was silly. I hae also seen other, very carefull, experienced drivers make a mistake, none of us are perfect.
Second, I think that those acts are defined as any act while in control of a vehicle, that is performed or executed without suffient time taken to observe ALL surroundings, in order to be as sure as possible that the manouver will not cause any forseeable danger or concern to other motorists.

Thus you have covered passing 80km granny, as taking the time to know you have room, and have given her space is not causing danger. It also includes indicating for a sufficient period of time (something I need to work on at times) before exucting that manouver so granny is aware of what is happening.
How do we acheive this end? well thats the sourse of an ever encircling ongoing debate on KB isnt it!

[YellowDog]

Today was a great example.

I was riding home and enjoying myself as I always do. Not speeding excessively, but just using as much of the road as possible and riding smoothly.

An old duffer pulls out of a side street with his missus in the car next to him. He is about 50m infront of me and doing about 30kph. I am frustrated as he has ruined my flow. I slow and look to pass, he sits on aroud 40kph and is really in the way. I just want to push past and blast away.

10 years ago, that is exactly what I would have done. But instead I just told myself "play time is over". This old duffer is minding his own business and driving with reasonable care (all be it too damn slow for my liking) and has not done anything wrong. So rather than blast past and potentially annoy him and his wife, I just sat back at 40kph for a coupe of minutes before the road widened to 2 lanes.

Funny thing though, we passed a Police check point at 40kph. I may have otherwise been borderline for the speed limit.

Thanks old duffer

[FROSTY:Me]

Ya know something that really makes me laugh is that very few people admit that their driving is below average.
But everybody has off days and days when you're not on the ball.
Whats cool is to just say hey- Sorry mr driver I stuffed up have a nice day.

[MSTRS:Me]

Ya know something that really makes me laugh is that very few people admit that their driving is below average.
But everybody has off days and days when you're not on the ball.
Whats cool is to just say hey- Sorry mr driver I stuffed up have a nice day.

But but but....yeah, ok, you are right. Not even Jesus was perfect.
Where's that photo?

[jono035]

Ya know something that really makes me laugh is that very few people admit that their driving is below average.
But everybody has off days and days when you're not on the ball.
Whats cool is to just say hey- Sorry mr driver I stuffed up have a nice day.

Yeah, there is a proper psychological term for that but I can't remember what it is, damnit.

[MSTRS:Me]

Arrogance, tempered by Modesty.

[YellowDog]

Ya know something that really makes me laugh is that very few people admit that their driving is below average.
But everybody has off days and days when you're not on the ball.
Whats cool is to just say hey- Sorry mr driver I stuffed up have a nice day.

I do sometimes have some real crap days when things just don't go as they should.

I have to stop and count to 10.

Slowly.

It's not my fault, it's everyone else around me putting me off

[Mom]

i agree with others that if you drive to slow you're an idiot, and if you overtake the slow driver you are a hoon. the important thing to remember is :-

hospitalfood = idiot.

mom = sweet rider.

This is not about my riding though, it is about all of us, how we ride on the road, and the effects our riding has on the opinions of other road users about bikers in general.

Some times before overtaking I think to myself would I do this if the Ginger cop was watching, which makes me re evaluate my wish to overtake if there is even the slightest risk. Maybe it has kept me safe, who knows.
Rick

I am not talking about being a total nana on the road either here, I am talking about riding along in the "zone" for want of a better word and the effect that riding has on others perceptions of us. We are not all idiots by a long way, in fact I would venture to suggest that many of us are fairly interested in our own survival and ride accordingly. However, I have absolutely no doubt that sometimes we can create a negative opinion of bikers by our own actions out on the roads.

The other test for idiocy is whether consideration for other road users flashes through your mind BEFORE your maneouvre (not an oh shit that was close, or I got away with it AFTER the maneouvre).

I liked your cop following comment, but this one I really like! I guess I am an idiot then, for I have had a few of those "oh shit" moments in my riding career, usually my own fault too I might add. Mind you having said that, those moments for me have been solo efforts, me and my bike and a bit of road that I under thought. I have been fortunate though to have escaped catastrophe, whether that is as a result of my riding skills or simple dumb luck I dont know. I make an effort not to piss people off in traffic.

[Ixion]

Most of the cagers who complain about bikes are simply haters. They hate bikes, but they hate most things also. We're just one of the things on their hate list.

They respond aggressively and hostiley to anything that they can't do or anything that in their perception challenges their position as alpha male.

The measure and proof of this is that their aggro is not just related to road incidents.

And I had a classic case today.

Leaving Sky City carpark after attending TechEd, where I had parked up in the (marked) motorcycle park area (thanks Sky City, it's appreciated). Ride up to the barrier arm at the exit and ride round it. As Sky City know we do. All good. Except to Mr Alpha Male, exiting in the adjacent lane . Who immediately starts honking his horn, winds down his passenger window and lets forth with a long tirade of hatred and obscenity. Not sure what it was , helmet and all, but it wasn't nice.

Now, here is an example of something completely legal , which did not inconvenience or endanger him in any way whatsover.

But he saw it as appropriate to respond with agression and hatred. He saw someone doing that which he could not and that was sufficient for him to swing into hating mode.

NOTHING, I repeat NOTHING that bikers can or could do can avert that hating. It is a pathlogical part of his nature. And I certainly do not intend to spend my life trying to justify my existence to people like that.

So i just gave him the fingers and tootled on my way .

[short-circuit]

So i just gave him the fingers and tootled on my way .

That's the one