Trap for young players

[Bass]

For a start it says to install the right side bearing first (which you seem to have learnt from trial and error) and from the diagram it looks to me like you can expect a clearance inside the left one when you then do it.

Thanks for that and no, I didn't read the manual as the job appeared to be totally straightforward. Doh!
However, as I said, I expected some clearance. There needs to be at least a few thou (say about 75 microns if we go metric) to avoid axially loading the bearings: -
1. Under bolting (axle nut) loads or
2. Temperature changes - the alloy hub will expand a lot faster with temperature than the steel axles and spacers.

I didn't measure the total clearance accurately, but I can say with certainty that it was between 2 and 2.5 mm. Now I admit to being not particularly bright, but I can't see why the gap needs to be that big. As I discovered, if for any reason the wheel moves axially on the bearings, the gap is large enough to allow it to pop the seal out.
Mr Suzuki is a better engineer than I will ever be and I would like to know why he has done it this way - for curiosity's sake if nothing else.

Lastly, it has occurred to me over years of fiddling with all types of things mechanical, that some of these well written workshop manuals, from time to time, tell you to do things in a certain way so as to get around design eccentricities or even design flaws. I wonder if this is one of those times?

[Taz]

Manual pfft! When has any red blooded Kiwi male used a manual?? That's just as bad as asking for directions or being good in bed!! Over rated maybe?























I'm Australian by the way so always read my manual from cover to cover, Use a gps to find my way and am very very good in bed

[Bass]

What is this manual thing you talk of?
Is it a south island thing?
Am I missing out?
Will it improve my quality of life?
What has it to do with motorcycles?

Answers.
It is a book of words explaining various uses for your hand
Yes
Are you married?
Yes, if you are married.
It describes an activity typical of KTM owners.

[Taz]

It describes an activity typical of KTM owners.

Hey!!! Not fair!!





Anyway I use both hands. And if I wasn't a wanker I wouldn't have three beautiful kids. Ah such is IVF

[Bass]

Hey!!! Not fair!!





Anyway I use both hands. And if I wasn't a wanker I wouldn't have three beautiful kids. Ah such is IVF

Oh dear!!
How embarrassing Andy!
My profound apologies - I was talking about high levels of maintenance.
Oh well.... perhaps it's the same thing in the end.

[Taz]

I was talking about high levels of maintenance.

Oh ummm yeah that's what I was talking about too Honest

[MXNUT]

I'm Australian by the way ....................................

That now explains soooo many things

[Transalper]

Um yea, back to the book, it's a pity it don't seem to give any actual indication of how big they think the clearance should be. At least at the glance I gave it I didn't see anything there and I can't go back for another look now as I've gone to work.
Have to agree Bass, everything you say about the gap being excessive sounds reasonable.

[Taz]

That now explains soooo many things

Struth mate now thats just mean

[Bass]

Um yea, back to the book, it's a pity it don't seem to give any actual indication of how big they think the clearance should be. At least at the glance I gave it I didn't see anything there and I can't go back for another look now as I've gone to work.
Have to agree Bass, everything you say about the gap being excessive sounds reasonable.

I have the manual on my work puter.
It doesn't give a value for the clearance but thanks for making the effort.

[warewolf]

Umm, not sure what all the angst is about. There's gonna be clearance between the bearing and shoulder on one side, or the other, innit? Bass just picked wrong first time? No drama. Or am I missing something?

On disassembly I usually check which side has the clearance, as that is the side installed second. On assembly the far side is driven home to the shoulder, insert spacer, install second bearing to the spacer. Wheel's not gonna go anywhere except round. Usually the clearance is several mm or at least visible fractions thereof. You wouldn't see 75 microns with the nekkid eye.

The DR-Z250 used to go through rear wheel bearing pretty fast, seem to replace them all too often. I'm sure the gap was around 2ish mm. Hey, it is just a cheap, crude japper after all. The KTM clearances are much closer though.

If you can remove the bearings cold then you should use something like Loctite 641 Retaining Compound - Super Bearing Mount to hold them in place. And if they rattle you can use another Loctite variant that holds in a bigger gap.

[Bass]

Umm, not sure what all the angst is about.

I'm sure the gap was around 2ish mm. Hey, it is just a cheap, crude japper after all. The KTM clearances are much closer though.

If you can remove the bearings cold then you should use something like Loctite 641 Retaining Compound - Super Bearing Mount to hold them in place. And if they rattle you can use another Loctite variant that holds in a bigger gap.

I think that you answered your own question there.
You're right - it is cheap and crude, but $8,000 is still good value.
What irks me is that, even so, I expected higher engineering standards - foolishly perhaps, but they are better in other areas of the machine. Consequently, it never occurred to me that I was dealing with a motor vehicle that required me to use loctite to keep the wheels located on the axles.
How can you be relaxed about that?
It just makes no sense given that it would be NO more expensive to do it properly. Even my old Morry Thou did it right and that was 50 years ago.

Having said all that, I guess the relative lack of end thrust on a bike's wheels bearings is a factor.

[Woodman]

A correctly used retaining compound with a transition (slip) fit bearing is superior to an interference fit in an aluminium housing.

[warewolf]

Consequently, it never occurred to me that I was dealing with a motor vehicle that required me to use loctite to keep the wheels located on the axles.
How can you be relaxed about that?
It just makes no sense given that it would be NO more expensive to do it properly.

Ya gotta do what ya gotta do. Doesn't worry me in the slightest - as Woodman says, Loctite can be better than not. I'm far more worried about the dickhead behind the wheel of that car. And far more worried about tyres/chains failing than any other consumable on the bike. When they fail it is fairly rapidly catastrophic; bearings tend to give you quite a bit of warning.

It does cost more to get the tolerance closer - but you'd never get it to zero, so you're always going to have some gap. 0.01mm or 1.00mm probably makes nil difference to the strength or reliability of the assembly. Once the bearing starts to move, it'll flog out. Maybe Suzuki could reduce the tolerance, but I don't think how it is now detracts from the bike at all.

I must say it was very satisfying when changing the bearings to have to crack loose the retaining compound. You just knew the bearing hadn't moved.

[Bass]

A correctly used retaining compound with a transition (slip) fit bearing is superior to an interference fit in an aluminium housing.

Ya gotta do what ya gotta do. Doesn't worry me in the slightest - as Woodman says, Loctite can be better than not. I'm far more worried about the dickhead behind the wheel of that car. And far more worried about tyres/chains failing than any other consumable on the bike. When they fail it is fairly rapidly catastrophic; bearings tend to give you quite a bit of warning.

It does cost more to get the tolerance closer - but you'd never get it to zero, so you're always going to have some gap. 0.01mm or 1.00mm probably makes nil difference to the strength or reliability of the assembly. Once the bearing starts to move, it'll flog out. Maybe Suzuki could reduce the tolerance, but I don't think how it is now detracts from the bike at all.

I must say it was very satisfying when changing the bearings to have to crack loose the retaining compound. You just knew the bearing hadn't moved.

Sorry guys but you are both missing the point. It's not about the bearing fit. It's simply that if the internal spacer was about .003" (say 75 microns) longer than than the shoulder to shoulder distance in the hub, clearances and fit would be all but irrelevant. Just bang it together and everything is self locating (and you can throw the fkn Loctite away). In addition, it costs no more to manufacture than what they are doing now - maybe less, because the bearing fit becomes less critical.