So motorcycle deaths are overrepresented

[JMemonic]

+1
16 year olds get their restricted licences, pay the government $ sit in a classroom and accelerate their time and get full at 17. It's a licence to kill.

I had my full M/C licence at 17, didn't get my car till I was 18 or 19 neither hear nor there, its not the class of licence that's the issue, its attitude, education and distractions.

[MarkH]

Fully licensed drivers at 17 is pretty scary. As far paying the government to sit in the classroom. Problem with this is it is no where near long or intensive enough

17? I had my full car license at exactly 15yrs & 1 Month!

I 100% agree on the woefully lacking driver training. As a motorcyclist I think it would be great if all drivers were taught to stop and look PROPERLY at intersections, which doesn't mean a quick glance in each direction and go if you didn't notice something coming.

Motorbikes are dangerous

Dealer told me it had lots of safety devices

Motorbikes DO have a lot of safety devices - but of course the operator needs to know how to use them effectively.
A quick list off the top of my head:
brakes, tyres, shocks, headlight, indicators, brake light, tail light, throttle, horn. Use them wrong or fail to use them = bad. Pretty much all of them are active safety devices, motorcycles have very little in the way of passive safety devices.

[MSTRS:Me]

Motorbikes DO have a lot of safety devices - but of course the operator needs to know how to use them effectively.
A quick list off the top of my head:
brakes, tyres, shocks, headlight, indicators, brake light, tail light, throttle, horn. Use them wrong or fail to use them = bad. Pretty much all of them are active safety devices, motorcycles have very little in the way of passive safety devices.

Actually, the only safety device on a motorcycle is the rider.

[Katman]

Actually, the only safety device on a motorcycle is the rider.

It's just a shame it malfunctions so often.

[R6_kid:Me]

I agree completely. When I first read the article on the front page of the Harold it seems as if the stats are largely incomplete, and that once again the focus is mainly on speed as a factor whether true or not. The feeling I got is that the article had to be written in such a way that the stats did not seem as incomplete as I'm thinking they are so that a story could be made to convey the stats that they do have.

Unfortunately it doesn't take away from the fact that motorcycle deaths are actually over represented. However without going into detail and extracting the root causes then what is the point in presenting the statistics other than for pure shock value?

FWIW I actually find that 'speeding' to a certain degree is actually safer for me as I am constantly re-checking my surroundings and maintaining a level of situational awareness suitable to the speed I am doing (slightly faster than general traffic), but commuting is a whole different world compared to open-road riding, and I'm sure my gut feeling that the open road is where a lot of the single-vehicle motorcycle fatalities are occuring.

What are the chances of getting a copy of the statistics they are using?

[MisterD]

Did anyone else catch our esteemed PM on Radio Live this morning? James Coleman asked him some question about driving age and zero alcohol limits for youngsters etc and the answer was something waffly that included a long list of "stuff they're looking at"

"waffle...driving age, alcohol, cellphones...waffle...motorbikes..."

[monkeymcbean]

Neither!

Motorcycles and scooters are reaching a critical mass where they become a transport option again, and there are those who would prefer that this didn't happen, fearing a massive rise in road deaths.

Don't train people, just ban bikes.

Always remember people, that they can't see you, mostly because no one gets taught how to look for other road users in NZ.

White helmets don't help.

Reflective vests don't help.

ABS won't help.

Land transport registration records show in the early 80's was the most registered motorbikes on the road, we are no where near that figure for 2008, it would be interesting to know the accident rates for back then if it is the same percentage as now.

[James Deuce]

Land transport registration records show in the early 80's was the most registered motorbikes on the road, we are no where near that figure for 2008, it would be interesting to know the accident rates for back then if it is the same percentage as now.

I posted the figures earlier. It was carnage.

[MSTRS:Me]

What are the chances of getting a copy of the statistics they are using?

Any set of stats, from any source, saying whatever....and a pair of scissors, to make what you have say what you want.

[Ixion]

The claim that "speeding" is the "killer" is simplistic and misleading (and obviously following the Police party line).

MoTs own CAS data show that the leading cause of crashes is Poor Observation. Followed by Failure to Give Way, Other, Poor handling, with Too Fast in fifth place.

The ranking for social cost of crashes (which weights for seriousness of crash) shows Observation in number one place again, followed by Poor Handling , and Too Fast in third place.

These are the figures taken from the CAS (Crash Analysis System), which records and analyses all crash data from Police and other sources.

No prizes for guessing which category of road user is the one "Not Observed"

[Blackbird]

Not that I'm naive enough to expect a positive outcome but I actually dashed off an email to Steven Joyce this morning, simply because by doing nothing, nothing will change.

It's not a literary masterpiece or anything, but I feel marginally better for having written it. Here it is:

Dear Minister,

With respect to recent reports on traffic accidents and particularly to motorcyclists; I make a heartfelt plea not to follow past governments in simply trying to solve the issue by legislation i.e., increasing punitive measures such as heavier penalties for wrongdoing or trying to drive motorcycles off the road by increasing road user charges etc. Whilst this type of “solution” may have short term effects, they do not address the root cause of poor driving skills, particularly situational awareness.

Not long after I returned to motorcycling at 40 years of age (I’m 61 now), I put myself through an advanced riding course as it was clear that my skills were inadequate to cope with modern motorcycles and their interaction with other forms of traffic. The course was a revelation and not only have my motorcycle skills improved, but I’m a far better car driver too. Many of the skills taught on the advanced course ought to be taught at licence acquisition level. They would not be expensive to incorporate and would have a major impact on skill levels. I’m perhaps overstating the case but it’s my impression that car drivers generally think that once a license has been acquired, they are set for life where the many motorcyclists believe that you never stop learning. I’m still learning new skills and will never stop. I’m a member of the Kiwi Biker website and a number of experienced members in different regions of the country have made themselves available to mentor younger riders, particularly to raise their situational awareness skills. This process has no official sanction, it is simply undertaken out of concern for less experienced road users. I only wish that raising skills could be done for all road users at a national level as that’s likely to be the only approach which has a significant and lasting impact on our national road statistics.

Before I sign off, I’d like to draw your attention to a short video produced by the highways Agency in the UK: http://www.public.tv/channel.php?gro...9MF4-C6GO-YVU5 . It follows an advanced motorcyclist on a ride with him keeping up a running commentary on what he’s doing, what potential hazards he sees and what action he is taking to mitigate them. Those observational skills are what all drivers should be taught!

With very best wishes,

Geoffrey James,

Coromandel Town

[mynameis]

Fully licensed drivers at 17 is pretty scary. As far paying the government to sit in the classroom. Problem with this is it is no where near long or intensive enough

It's a one day picnic which just costs a lot of money.

Bugger off. Depends on the individual.
I had a full m.c licence at 15 + 6 weeks. And so did most of my peers at the time. Nothing scary about that.
OTOH There are people who've been driving on a full licence for years that I'd be nervous about.

That was 30 years ago

I had my full M/C licence at 17, didn't get my car till I was 18 or 19 neither hear nor there, its not the class of licence that's the issue, its attitude, education and distractions.

Who's saying class is the only issue?

I am talking about 16-24 representing 50% of the deaths on our roads and the ability of a 17 year old to obtain full licence at that age.

[Brian d marge]

simply because by doing nothing, nothing will change.

good letter , took only a few min ,,,, I wish everyone would do such a thing

I am not sure aout Emails though

letters are still free mail to the gov

Print , stuff. Send?

Stephen

[Grahameeboy]

Speed is not the main factor in isolation,however, bikes are a lot faster and handle better...tyres are better...what this means...I reckon...is a bit like when the first 4WD Audi Quatro came out...drivers thought they could go faster around bends...we had a lot of claims for Audi's not managing bends.Training, education is not any better...yet we are riding faster bikes with a lot of go faster accessories...slip ons, Power Commanders etc etc.Maybe we have to realise that we are not all equiped to ride these bikes...but for no deposit 4.9% over 5 years the new R1 is available for $107 a week...Some manufactures like, TVR...well they used to...made you do a course before letting you take car away...

[MSTRS:Me]

That was 30 years ago

So? I had a full car licence at just on 16. Needed a car for girlfriend-purposes, after I got sprung pillioning daddy's precious (if he only knew )
But I couldn't go to the pub until I was 20. Go figure.