Ahhh....Opps....
I would like some clarification though:
If a learner motorcyclist exceeds 70 km/h but does not exceed the fixed speed limit for said area, can a speeding fine then be issued. My read of this would be no - but I would be interested in the opinion of the cops lurking here.
(You can take this question a step further and ask if the rider were travelling at 110 km/h would they be subject to immediate revocation of their license?)
P.
The chances of anything coming from Mars are a million to one, he said.
Tornado Alley
Liar calling me a Pig? Or Pig calling you a liar. Confused now......Originally Posted by Madness
Que?
Quick!, cover up that confusion with a lie or three!
Tornado Alley
No.
It is a condition on your learners, a learners breach only exceeding the 70k restriction, so you are not exceeding the speed "limit."
If you were doing 110 in a 100, it is a learner breach only.
If you were doing 145 in a 100, license suspension, learner breach (possibly) and speeding ticket.
You follow?
Tornado Alley
Go on then..... you know you want to....
Forum whore
I don't think you'd have a hope in hell. Apart from the fact that a JP will just ignore it as a frivolous argument, it can be destroyed quite simply.
The argument is that the breach of the rule is excused by
"(c) the act or omission was taken—
(i) to avoid the death or injury of a person; or"
So , your argument is, that it was necessary to ride at greater than 70kph because otherwise the general conditions were such that riding at 70kph would result in the death or injury of a person (ie the rider). Apart from the fact that the argument is not inherently valid (I have ridden at 70kph on a motorway and not been killed or injured), it will still fail because of
"
(b) the situation was not of the person's own making; "
Manifestly, it was. The rider elected to ride on the motorway. Any danger inherent in that was clearly of his own making. He didn't HAVE to ride on the motorway.
You would also need to prove that AT THE TIME of the ticket riding at 70kph would have resulted in injury to you. Which I think would be impossible , and the odds are that it would not have. I'm not defending the 70kph limit , which I think ill advised, but the reality is that a rider riding at 70kph on a motorway will NOT automatically be knocked off in the first kilometre.
This exception might cover you, if for instance you had exceeded the 70kph limit because you sped up to avoid a vehicle that pulled out in front of you and there was no other safe way to avoid hitting it.
I don't think you have a hope of convincing a court that it gives a carte blanch exception to a provision of the rule.
Ahhh....Opps....
Yes. Thanks. That was my understanding as well. Unfortunately not the understand of the office issuing the ticket. I think he was a we bit confused by it all.
The chances of anything coming from Mars are a million to one, he said.
Yes
Schedule 1
1 (2) The rule covers the requirements road users must adhere to
when using the road network that are broadly encompassed by
the term ‘‘traffic law’’. It does not cover driver and vehicle
licensing, roadworthiness, vehicle standards, licence carriage,
driver hours or logbooks, or major offences such as drink
driving. These matters are addressed in the Transport Act
1962, the Land Transport Act 1998, or in other Land Transport
Rules.
Tornado Alley
Could be a newbie..... He has much to learn.....
Que?
Common problem that, a confused Policeman. It's usually resolved with the issuing of an offence notice. This seems to remove all confusion for them.
Ahhh....Opps....
Exactly the point I raised above. I doubt there are generally applicable loopholes in a law that has been around for this long. Indeed, my concern is not so much the ticket - but rather the clearly disparity between the law, the officers verbal claim to be increasing my safely, and the officers actions (which I have not yet detailed here - and will not pending the hearing outcome) at the time concerned.
P.
The chances of anything coming from Mars are a million to one, he said.
Forum whore
Actually, all the talk about the Road User Rule 2004 is irrelevant.
The 70kph restriction is contained in the Driver Licensing Rule 1999 Sect 16 (1) (d). This rule has no such blanket exception.
If you have been charged under the Road User Rule 2004 you are home free.
Ahhh....Opps....
That explains why I could find it in the legislation.
I will check that - but I somehow doubt that particular error has been made.
The chances of anything coming from Mars are a million to one, he said.
The instructions are simple...
Frivolous it may be. He was exceeding his 70kph limit, and he doesn't dispute that. But defendants are entitled to use any means to get off a charge, and he has no other recourse but to enter a 'not guilty' plea. Just pleading not guilty isn't going to cut it though, so he must provide some evidence that the cop was lying (which doesn't seem to be that case), or there is some legal reason he was allowed to breach the speed condition.
Seems to me, it's his money and he wants to try to keep it (at the risk of it costing him more...). Few of us (including the KBstone Kops) think the 70kph is good law, but that in itself is not a defense. How else does one defend such a charge?
Since the only place to challenge a law is in court, then any means possible should be employed, and hope that it works, thereby setting a precedent under which breaches of that law can either continue to be defended that way, or the law be rewritten to close the loophole, or replaced with a better law. Ideally, this particular law/section of licence conditions would be altered to better safeguard learners (say, removed altogether or motorway riding is expressly forbidden).
Last edited by MSTRS; 28th September 2009 at 14:09.
Do you realise how many holes there could be if people would just take the time to take the dirt out of them?
Forum whore
If the case is delayed because the cop does not show up,ask that it be dismissed as you have already taken time off work to appear.
I got off a dangerous driving charge this way
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