I've broken my half face virginity

[popelli]

I hope you're joking.

no joke only basic laws of physics

[ital916]

no joke only basic laws of physics

In this case I am tellin yall that a few hundred grams difference aint gonna make squat difference in a crasha s there are other forces acting upon your body with a greater magnitude that the forces exerted from the motion of the helmet.

Thats an engineers opinion, I can also go get a physicist for you.

I keep telling people to stop quoting "basic" physics as rudimentary equations cannot be used to define complex problems as they dont take into account eough factors, variables, and utilise wide assupmtions, which affect EVERYTHING.

In science and engineering it is all about what you ASSUME and how DETAILED your calculations are.

[davereid]

In this case I am tellin yall that a few hundred grams difference aint gonna make squat difference in a crasha s there are other forces acting upon your body with a greater magnitude that the forces exerted from the motion of the helmet.

There have been quite a few studies done to determine if helmets contribute to spinal injuries. This is because scientists are concerned about the potential for helmets to contribute to spinal injuries.

Its a difficult comparison.

Pretty clearly, your neck was designed to support your head, the designers never allowed for an extra 1-2kg of helmet.

Plus, its pretty tricky to use your head as a fulcrum, when your head is also the lever. But its really easy to use a helmet as a fulcrum.

Thirdly, you have an accident much earlier when you are wearing a helmet. That is to say, your helmet wil be in hard contact with the road when your head may have never even hit it at all !

Internatonal research has been able to find no credible evidence that helmets contribute to spinal injuries.

On the other hand, spinal wards are full of helmet wearing motorcyclists, when it was virtually unknown before the introduction of helmets.

Maybe they died of head injuries first !

[roogazza]

I've only skipped through the thread but I think Ixion is the only one to mention 'Jet' That is what they were called 'Jet Helmets'
Half face , never heard that before.
So it goes Pudding basin, Jet, Full face. I'm betting Ixion knows what Stadium mark 6's are ???? Gaz.

[Ixion]

Course I do. But I preferred Mark VIIIs.

I know what a genuine Pudding Basin is, too. had one in fact. And the headgear that was really popular back in the day, the war surplus leather flying helmet.

The Jet helmet (hellish hard to get nowadays) was quite different to what is, I suspect, usually envisaged nowadays by the term "open face". It was much deeper at the back, so that it protected the back of the head, and sort of "looped" down over the ears and covered the jaw hinge points.

[The Pastor]

This peeved me so much that I dug out my old open face and went for a blat. Refreshingly different.

And I survived

you should be locked up young man!

[vifferman]

When I started riding, there were very few fullface helmets, and those that you could buy were either too expensive (Bell) or of dubious suitability for motorcycling (early Shoei helmets - actually designed for car racing, and a bit heavy for on a bike). So, most people wore open-faced helmets, and that was that. It was no big deal, but on the open road I had a clip-on visor to keep the bugs and rain off.
I've had a few crashes, and written off two bikes, and the only times my helmet has contacted the ground has been at near standstill speed. However, in one of those cases, even thugh it was only equivalent to falling sideways onto the road, and the helmet bore very little sign of the impact (it hit where the right-hand edge of the visor opening is), I had mild concussion for a few days: headaches, mood change, etc. Wonder how Shane Cameron feels at the moment...?

[vifferman]

There have been quite a few studies done to determine if helmets contribute to spinal injuries. This is because scientists are concerned about the potential for helmets to contribute to spinal injuries.

Here's summat anecdotal: I had one fall from my bike (car clipped the front wheel), and landed on my side. Helmet didn't hit the road, but the deceleration of head+helmet gave me minor whiplash.
If you're doing a lot of riding (particularly at open-road velocities or on windy days), you build up quite strong neck muscles. Still hurts when your neck has to contend with being whipped around by an extra 1.5kg strapped to it. That's why they're developing self-deploying inflatable neck braces. Blardy good idea in my opinion.

[ital916]

There have been quite a few studies done to determine if helmets contribute to spinal injuries. This is because scientists are concerned about the potential for helmets to contribute to spinal injuries.

Its a difficult comparison.

Pretty clearly, your neck was designed to support your head, the designers never allowed for an extra 1-2kg of helmet.

Plus, its pretty tricky to use your head as a fulcrum, when your head is also the lever. But its really easy to use a helmet as a fulcrum.

Thirdly, you have an accident much earlier when you are wearing a helmet. That is to say, your helmet wil be in hard contact with the road when your head may have never even hit it at all !

Internatonal research has been able to find no credible evidence that helmets contribute to spinal injuries.

On the other hand, spinal wards are full of helmet wearing motorcyclists, when it was virtually unknown before the introduction of helmets.

Maybe they died of head injuries first !

Yes when first face helmets were first introduced, due to design flaws they were dangerous (in some extents), but modern helmets are designed to minimise trauma to the spinal region. The thing with scientific data is many misinterpret what the scientists are trying to state.

Those lying in hospital with spinal injuries whilst wearing a full face helmet are probably lucky to be there and not dead due to a large does of luck and safety gear they were wearing.

Open face jet helmets and full face helmets nowadays provide excellent protection to the lower and base areas of the skull and upper areas of the neck. As for the helmet hitting the ground in crashes where the head might not, well that idea is just flawed.

1) In a crash where the forces acting up ones head are minimal enough that the head can be kept off the ground by the rider i.e. using neck muscles so on, the impacting of a helmet would be minimal and in most situations beneficial as the helmet absorbs a minor impact reducing stress upon the neck.

2) In a crash where it is forceful enough that the riders head is impacted into the ground, the absorption of the crash force by the helmet might be the only thing that has prevent major head injuries opposed to an un-helmeted head hitting the ground (and in this case you would not have been able to keep their head of the ground).

3) In a crash where the head is whipped hard enough that spinal injuries are caused; whether a full face or open face is used, those same spinal injuries are most likely to have been inflicted and the addition of a few hundred grams would not make a difference.

As for the design of the human body, well it varies hugely. We dont have heads all built to the same margins, some have heavier heads...much heavier heads. Are you saying that riders with heavier heads are at a greater risk with the addition of a helmet. Should we develop a scale where we measure heads to determine whether a person needs that extra 200 grams of weight or not....I dont think so.

The bottom line is...if you hit the ground hard enough to smack your head into the ground there is little chance that you could have stopped it. If you crash light enough to keep your head off the ground then the impact of the helmet would do squat.

Like I said, dont blame the few extra hundred grams of a helmet for greater spinal injuries for someone who has crashed and smacked their head into the ground at 30 km/h....they would have been fucked either way, it really comes down to luck and the factors of the crash.

So I say AGAIN. Lets be honest with ourselves. Some prefer Open face helmets....some full face. Let them ride with WHAT THEY WANT.....lets shout it out together people....

[jafar]

if u think half face is crazy, wait till you try no lid!

Been there , done that. I was in the states last year and rode more than once sans helmet.
Most states don't have a compulsory helmet law & riders with nothing more than a bandana covering their heads was common. A lot rode with no head protection whatsoever or with just sunglasses to keep the sun (& bugs) out.

[Ixion]

The spinal injury / full face issue isn't just about weight.

It's more the question of what happens if the jaw part is pushed backwards.

The leverage obtained by pushing the lower edge of the jaw guard is quite great. And the fulcrum of the push will be the back of the neck.

If you are ever involved in a serious rumble with someone wearing a full face helmet, just get your palm under the lower edge of the jaw guard and push hard and fast up and back. You'll probably kill him though, so best reserved for real serious stuff.

[roogazza]

Course I do. But I preferred Mark VIIIs.

I know what a genuine Pudding Basin is, too. had one in fact. And the headgear that was really popular back in the day, the war surplus leather flying helmet.

The Jet helmet (hellish hard to get nowadays) was quite different to what is, I suspect, usually envisaged nowadays by the term "open face". It was much deeper at the back, so that it protected the back of the head, and sort of "looped" down over the ears and covered the jaw hinge points.

Ha, I figured you were around my vintage ? Gaz.

[Ixion]

That would be the "doddery old geezer" vintage?

[roogazza]

When I started riding, there were very few fullface helmets, and those that you could buy were either too expensive (Bell) or of dubious suitability for motorcycling (early Shoei helmets - actually designed for car racing, and a bit heavy for on a bike). So, most people wore open-faced helmets, and that was that. It was no big deal, but on the open road I had a clip-on visor to keep the bugs and rain off.
I've had a few crashes, and written off two bikes, and the only times my helmet has contacted the ground has been at near standstill speed. However, in one of those cases, even thugh it was only equivalent to falling sideways onto the road, and the helmet bore very little sign of the impact (it hit where the right-hand edge of the visor opening is), I had mild concussion for a few days: headaches, mood change, etc. Wonder how Shane Cameron feels at the moment...?

I can remember jumping up real quick from a few crashes just to check my Bell hadn't touched the deck !!!!!!!
Living Sydney 69-70 I used to bring back early Shoei helmets, at the time cheap copies of Bell for about 20 dollars to pay for the trip. How times change ? Bell were hard to get and expensive. G.

[Forest]

Anybody here remember the Grand Challenge last year?

I seem to recall there was a bloke who binned his Triumph near the start. He was wearing an open face helmet and ended up with a smashed jaw.