Swerving...

[MSTRS:Me]

PLEASE. Any newbies reading NDORFN's posts - IGNORE his faulty advice. It is dangerous.

[BMWST?]

So, just to clarify, countersteering still applies when your leant over, right?

yes and to futher clarify you may need to counter steer THREE times,once to initiate swerve ,once(perhaps a slightly higher effort) to swerve back and another to straighten.
When/if you ride a faster bigger bike over a windy road you may need to countersteer in this fashion to negotiate the bends.
And FWIW this countersteering is how we control any two wheeled vehicle,its just normally applied in a much more subtle way,than this deliberate PUSH(gently at first).

[magicmonkey]

In conjunction with learning to swerve, aim to improve your situational awareness so the possibility of needing to swerve is reduced.

I think that's probably the bit I need to pay the least attention to at the moment, I've had 13 accident free years of driving a car and I can drive like a complete idiot at times, it comes down to leaving a big enough gap in front of me and being aware of what's going in in my peripheral vision. Initially I though those skills would need to be re-learned to bring them in line with biking but after being out on the road a bit I found my hazard perception was still just as useful.

Not that I'm saying it isn't important or that I'm perfect, just that I can only be actively learning so many things at once and my emergency reaction responses need a lot more work than my hazard perception for now.

[magicmonkey]

yes and to futher clarify you may need to counter steer THREE times,once to initiate swerve ,once(perhaps a slightly higher effort) to swerve back and another to straighten.
When/if you ride a faster bigger bike over a windy road you may need to countersteer in this fashion to negotiate the bends.

Eek! That sounds like it's going to get a bit complicated for me at the moment! I think I might have to come back to the whole countersteering principles when I've got the basics down properly!

[Felix52]

I hope you meant "with"...

Ahem, yes, I meant that I practice swerving around them (mostly, don't always get it right....)

[MSTRS:Me]

In conjunction with learning to swerve, aim to improve your situational awareness so the possibility of needing to swerve is reduced.

All too true.

So, just to clarify, countersteering still applies when your leant over, right?

You better believe it. Go practice in a safe place. Get a mentor to help you.
You will find that a given amount of nudge, will initiate a given amount of lean/turn. Depends on your bike, but a well set-up bike will maintain that lean until you do something else. Like nudge again on the same bar will increase the lean/turn. Or on the opposite bar will straighten you up. Or a harder nudge will set you leaning/turning the other way.

[MSTRS:Me]

I think that's probably the bit I need to pay the least attention to at the moment, I've had 13 accident free years of driving a car and I can drive like a complete idiot at times, it comes down to leaving a big enough gap in front of me and being aware of what's going in in my peripheral vision. Initially I though those skills would need to be re-learned to bring them in line with biking but after being out on the road a bit I found my hazard perception was still just as useful.

Not that I'm saying it isn't important or that I'm perfect, just that I can only be actively learning so many things at once and my emergency reaction responses need a lot more work than my hazard perception for now.

False logic. Hazards for bikers are many more than for cagers. Don't rely on your cager skills to give you enough warning...

[magicmonkey]

You better believe it. Go practice in a safe place. Get a mentor to help you.
You will find that a given amount of nudge, will initiate a given amount of lean/turn. Depends on your bike, but a well set-up bike will maintain that lean until you do something else. Like nudge again on the same bar will increase the lean/turn. Or on the opposite bar will straighten you up. Or a harder nudge will set you leaning/turning the other way.

Sweet, thanks for that, it's probably saved me a slide down the road!

[NDORFN]

PLEASE. Any newbies reading NDORFN's posts - IGNORE his faulty advice. It is dangerous.

Grow up. Of course it's a little bit dangerous to do circles in a carpark, but so is life. The point of my advice was that you can't learn to ride a bike by listening to the contradictory and confusing advice of hundreds of different people on a forum who are of different height,weight, body proportions, confidence levels, ride different bikes (especially important to remember when someone who rides a GSXR750 is trying to tell someone how to ride a GN250) etc... which makes alot of what they're saying irrelivent... you HAVE to practise, and you ultimately have to teach yourself to ride your own bike.

[MSTRS:Me]

Yes. Carpark circles are the shizz for learning how to avoid obstacles on the road.
NOT!!!

[NDORFN]

Yes. Carpark circles are the shizz for learning how to avoid obstacles on the road.
NOT!!!

Why don't you go learn how to figure-8 your bike in a carpark until she's scraping and see if that improves your abilbity to swerve. You might surprise yourself.

[MSTRS:Me]

Why don't you go learn how to figure-8 your bike in a carpark until she's scraping and see if that improves your abilbity to swerve. You might surprise yourself.

*Sigh*
You just don't get it. What I can or can't do (oh, and I most definitely can) has nothing to do with me giving GOOD advice to a newbie who asked for it.
And what I said about tyre temps and surface condition is all-important. Gradually increasing lean angles in a carpark is all very well. The surface is constant and the tyres heat up to the edges. Nothing like what happens in an emergency situation on the road. Your so-called 'advice' sucks.

[NDORFN]

Works for me. Where I do alot of my riding (country roads surrounding Matamata), swerving is something you have to have a good grip on. There's rabbits, possums and cats, nothing special, but there are also turkeys, pheasants, ferrits etc... like you wouldn't believe!!! I atrribute most of my ability to manouvre my bike abrutbtly around those obstacles to the fact that I pushed my bike to it's limits at slow speed first in a carpark, and progressively transfered that skill to the open road at higher speeds and of course, adjusted technique to suit speed, braking, conditions, suspension load etc... but without having mastered my bike first, I doubt I'd have had the confidence and metal prep to pull it off. Maybe I am way off the general consensus here, but it works and it works fucking well, and I regularly ride on roads where it's a priority skill and is utilised multiple times per ride. This might sound a bit wierd, but I liken my bike to a horse... before I could ride it on the open road, I broke it in in a carpark. She hasn't bucked me off yet.

[BMWST?]

Eek! That sounds like it's going to get a bit complicated for me at the moment! I think I might have to come back to the whole countersteering principles when I've got the basics down properly!

not at all...its all part of the same manouvre.It will all be for nought if you do a big swerve to miss a peice of timber that has just fallen of the truck in front of you only to run off the road because(a you didnt swerve BACK) or b) having swerved back you dint correct in time to stay on the road.Its all a hell of a lot easier in practise.
I tell you what.I have returned to riding recently but in my earlier life i was a beginners and advanced riding instructor.i am quite happy to meet you somewhere and give you some practise run throughs....PM me

[MSTRS:Me]

Works for me.

All that your carpark manoeuvres achieve is to perfect that skill in that situation. And to not be afraid of your bike. What you/your bike can do in a carpark in the sense of lean angles does not translate direct to an emergency situation on the road.