Appreciation of 250s in the next 2 decades.

**TuonoTom** · 10th October 2009, 22:33

I happen to remember a certain Classic JAPANESE bike show here in Christchurch earlier in the year. So many awesome bikes. Sure I like European bikes, but to say that a bike won't be a classic just because it's Japanese is just stupid.

**breakaway** · 11th October 2009, 09:04

Originally Posted by McWild

But remember that an FI 2 stroke is very different to a classic 2 stroke.

Really? How so?

**McWild** · 11th October 2009, 09:46

Originally Posted by breakaway

Really? How so?

Well as the fuel is injected directly into the cylinder, the oil is separated from the fuel and is used as a dedicated lubing system. This means none of the blue smoke puffing out the back, and not so much of the blowing up because the parts are getting properly lubed instead of the not very good fuel/oil mixture.
Fuel doesn't get thrown straight out the exhaust port either, which means a more emissions friendly bike.
From what I know they are also tuned to be less peaky and have powerbands more reminiscent of four strokes than classic two strokes.

There was a really good article on here a while ago about an Aprilia RS250 that had been fitted with a DI system. The sound was something between a four stroke and a two stroke.

Edit: Here's the article (I think): http://twostrokemotocross.com/2009/0...s-strike-back/

**MSTRS:Me** · 11th October 2009, 10:05

Originally Posted by CBR250Tom

Sure I like European bikes, but to say that a bike won't be a classic just because it's Japanese is just stupid.

Yep. Classics achieve that status because, for whatever reason, they catch the imagination of 'the people'. There are some truly horrible bikes out there, that are classics because of this. Just look at the Kawasaki triples...
It's anyone's guess what will be more 'desireable' out of 2/4 stroke 250s in years to come. So many variables. Crystal ball, anyone?

**crash harry** · 11th October 2009, 10:14

Hmm... I'm going to buck the trend here and say 4 cylinder 250s might just appreciate more in the next 20 years. Partly because there's a whole generation of bikers in this country who are going to associate them with their first (or second) bike. For the people who learned to ride between about 1995 and 2005 or so, the little screamers, particularly the Honda and the Kwak, were farking popular. Getting a bit less so now because the newest of them are 10 years old and they're all a bit knackered now.

Having said that, it's going to be a matter of degrees, they'll both be classics of one sort or another in 10 to 20 years time...

**onearmedbandit** · 11th October 2009, 10:29

Originally Posted by McJim

Classic Japanese is an oxymoron.

Really? Care to clarify that some more? Or is it purely based on race?

**TuonoTom** · 11th October 2009, 10:40

Originally Posted by McWild

Well as the fuel is injected directly into the cylinder, the oil is separated from the fuel and is used as a dedicated lubing system. This means none of the blue smoke puffing out the back, and not so much of the blowing up because the parts are getting properly lubed instead of the not very good fuel/oil mixture.
Fuel doesn't get thrown straight out the exhaust port either, which means a more emissions friendly bike.
From what I know they are also tuned to be less peaky and have powerbands more reminiscent of four strokes than classic two strokes.

There was a really good article on here a while ago about an Aprilia RS250 that had been fitted with a DI system. The sound was something between a four stroke and a two stroke.

Edit: Here's the article (I think): http://twostrokemotocross.com/2009/0...s-strike-back/

Sounds fantastic doesn't it, a fuel injected two stroke that produces loads of power, is efficient and environmentally friendly. But if I'm buying a two stroke I want it to waste fuel and blow clouds of blue smoke, seems wrong for them not to really!

**gatch** · 11th October 2009, 13:44

Vfr400's will be worth more, because they are awesome. YEs YEs.

But seriously I voted for the 2 strokes, everyone that isn't gay as fuck loves 2 strokes. How could you not ?

**chaos rider** · 11th October 2009, 13:53

in 20 years 2

tokers will be museum relics

**gatch** · 11th October 2009, 14:06

Originally Posted by chaos rider

in 20 years 2

tokers will be museum relics

No no, I'll still be kickin around

**OnCam** · 11th October 2009, 16:18

i think the 90's will always be the best era for the 250 class to what ever comes next, manufacturers are getting soft with fuel effiency, flash styling softer on the ass and easier position for the rider.

i think the 2 stroke nsr rgv etc will increase in value, they are so iconic as a sport/race style bikes, the early 90's was the peak time for japanese production bikes and cars. We saw huge achievements with some monster cars being built with out of this world technology, bikes with new levels of performance and wow factor etc

in the big picture, cows, industrial, aerosols will have a much greater effect on any environmental change compared to 2 and 4 stroke japanese 250's or other bikes. Yes everyone is trying to reduce emmisions, but they need to apply a clean green image for sales and image of the company.

NZ is pretty lenient in emmision testing now compared to many countries that must comply with strict emmision testing, where cars must run a cat converter etc, here you can simply fit a full straight through exhaust no hassle, providing it doesnt bellow smoke under throttle application. emmisions are still there even if you cant see it!

**Dave-** · 11th October 2009, 17:30

Originally Posted by OnCam

i think the 90's will always be the best era for the 250 class to what ever comes next, manufacturers are getting soft with fuel effiency, flash styling softer on the ass and easier position for the rider.

i think the 2 stroke nsr rgv etc will increase in value, they are so iconic as a sport/race style bikes, the early 90's was the peak time for japanese production bikes and cars. We saw huge achievements with some monster cars being built with out of this world technology, bikes with new levels of performance and wow factor etc

in the big picture, cows, industrial, aerosols will have a much greater effect on any environmental change compared to 2 and 4 stroke japanese 250's or other bikes. Yes everyone is trying to reduce emmisions, but they need to apply a clean green image for sales and image of the company.

NZ is pretty lenient in emmision testing now compared to many countries that must comply with strict emmision testing, where cars must run a cat converter etc, here you can simply fit a full straight through exhaust no hassle, providing it doesnt bellow smoke under throttle application. emmisions are still there even if you cant see it!

conservation of matter.

I've always wondered what happens to the "reduced" emissions by cat converters, probably gets buried in a landfill where it'll breakdown over the next millenia and release it's captured toxins anyway.

**mctshirt** · 12th October 2009, 06:56

Originally Posted by p.dath

20 years from now - I think there may be stronger emission controls, and just like they are looking at banning 2 strike outboard motors on boats, 2 stroke road bikes could be banned as well.

3 strikes and you're out!

**Brian d marge** · 13th October 2009, 07:43

Originally Posted by ital916

I want this

mmmmm....250 desmo. Interstingly I believe there was a 350 and a 450 as well? Odd how they had 100cc increments.

I'd say two stroke 250s wont appreciate as much. Reason being, injected two strokes will be brought in. Everyone will realize riding a four stroke is gay and buy the modern two strokes, hence making old school four strokes a rarity.

I had a 239 tuned by John witman

green and white cams . twin plug

wrote the thing off on the way to a job interview !!!

Stephen