Flags, colours, and their use

[FROSTY:Me]

I don't understand? Only the S/F line has black flags of any type. It's always that way, is it not? The bike in this instance wasn't haemorraging until it had passed that point. From then on, there was no officially recognised way of stopping the bike. Logic tells me that all points did the 'right thing', to no avail, but logic is not Rules, and the rider could not necessarily be faulted for ignoring us. He obviously knew (from it's performance) that the bike wasn't right, hence being off to the side, but still, assuming he was unaware of fluid leaks, he did what the rules say he should.
See my post here

nope its NOT the NORM for flaggies to only have two flags.Unless AMCC are over pedantic with ther flag issueing and that I somehow doubt

[MSTRS:Me]

4, mate, 4.
Yellow, red/yellow, red, blue.

[FROSTY:Me]

Yeah and just to make things even more complicated, the way they announce a jump start is to display a black flag with a riders number on the board next to it. All it tells the rider is you will have a 20 second penalty when you finish the race. You'd be pissed off if you came into the pits thinking your bike was dodgy after that!

WTF--where did that come from??
22.8.16.b --check it out--clearly says what to do --if different is or has been done the someones doing it wrong.
In principle I agree totally with Kick -black flag with my number--off track plain and simple.
Perhaps now is the time for not so much a rule change as a nation wide rule CLARIFICATION specific to the black flag.

[Skunk]

Thanks for this reply Paul,

Your alluding to the ignorance of the rule book is such a historical concern I or you can never alter that situation so don’t get bitter and twisted about it . While its so easy to get a comp licence there will never be a change and only MNZ can alter that stupid scenario.

Then that is what WE must try and get MNZ to do.

You want me to clarify if I think a bike is better to circulate with damage/ problems or to park it , I personally believe the situation cant be answered in a general fashion but I have given a few eg; in my previous posts as to why I feel this way.
As with any issue some have a propensity to vote pro and some anti . I vote to cover the logical. Not all situations are the same so a blanket rule is hard to clarify
EG; if a bike has an issue between turn 1 and the esses at Manfeild I would hate to see that bike park up on the inside or outside of the esses, carry on to the slip road before the hairpin and I would congratulate that rider for being proactive. It scares me when I see a rider that crashes in the esses and just stands holding their bike where it stopped while there is still racing and the chance of a bike hitting a stranded rider is increased considering the same type of crash normally deposit’s a bike in the same place as the stranded rider from the first crash, I have seen it and its devastating. A parked up bike is a target for a crashing bike in some situations , don’t park there and the chance of being hit is nil.

I believe that is what is meant by "when it is safe to do so". As soon as safe/where it is safe. Not all the way to the pits nor immediately at full race speed! The rider still needs to use common sense - and most do.

Your reference to an accident at Puke is from what I understand due to a rider trying to reach the side of the track to “park it “, am I correct ?

I have been told he was making his way to the pits. That was why he crossed the track. He was on one side and was crossing to the other. Someone will know the truth - all you and I seem to have is hearsay. Either way he was not at 'race pace' on a fast part of the circuit which is what the park rule and the qualifying rule are designed to prevent. The park rule still needs common sense from the rider. As you allude to above - that is not always there in the heat of the moment.

[Skunk]

Yeah and just to make things even more complicated, the way they announce a jump start is to display a black flag with a riders number on the board next to it. All it tells the rider is you will have a 20 second penalty when you finish the race. You'd be pissed off if you came into the pits thinking your bike was dodgy after that!

WTF? Who does that?

[Billy]

Yeah and just to make things even more complicated, the way they announce a jump start is to display a black flag with a riders number on the board next to it. All it tells the rider is you will have a 20 second penalty when you finish the race. You'd be pissed off if you came into the pits thinking your bike was dodgy after that!

Well thats just plain stupid.The black flag displayed with a riders number should only be used for its correct intention,Which is too warn the rider of a problem and remove them from the circuit.A penalty for a jump start can easily and simply be enforced at the end of the race.WHO the fuck is making these ridiculous decisions ????

[Tony.OK]

Chapter 6

6-8-1 Every competitor whose machine becomes disabled must where possible remove his/her
machine to the side of the course.

6-19 The following flags will be recognised as the standard colours to be used as signals to riders during a race:

Green: Start

Red: All riders stop racing.

Yellow: Held Stationary – SLOW DOWN – Proceed with caution. No overtaking until danger area is passed. Sidecar riders-this could also mean your passenger is in difficulties.

Yellow: Waved – SLOW DOWN NOW – Proceed with extreme caution. No overtaking until the danger area is passed, be prepared to stop.

White: Last lap.

Black: Individual rider to stop and retire from course. The rider’s number must be shown on a board at the same point as the black flag is displayed.

Black and White Check: Finish for all riders.

Red and Yellow Stripes: Oil on course.

Red and White Cross: Ambulance on course, proceed with caution.

Black with Orange Centre: Road Race Only: Machine to be removed from the circuit immediately. The rider’s number must be shown on a board at the same point as the flag is displayed. Flags must be a minimum size of 24” x 24” (600mm x 600mm).

Blue Waved Road Racing: Overtaking signal warning rider is about to be overtaken.

Blue Held Stationary Road Racing: Indicates that competitor is soon to be overtaken.

Now where does it say only the start line can have # boards and cartain flags? The answers are there in writing, it just depends on the organisers if they want to invest in how events are run.
Yep it'll cost a bit but its a 1 off cost and there's been offers made in the past.

[k14]

Well thats just plain stupid.The black flag displayed with a riders number should only be used for its correct intention,Which is too warn the rider of a problem and remove them from the circuit.A penalty for a jump start can easily and simply be enforced at the end of the race.WHO the fuck is making these ridiculous decisions ????

Happened to me at Puke 2 years ago. I didn't even see it (yeah shoot me if you want, they only showed it for 1 lap) and was informed after the race.

[FROSTY:Me]

Thanks Tony--thats my point xactly

[Kickaha]

Now where does it say only the start line can have # boards and cartain flags? .

Perhaps it has been rewritten but it used to say Red or Black would be displayed only at the start/Finish, maybe it was changed when they changed the rule so red flags could be displayed at other points

[MSTRS:Me]

Thanks Tony--thats my point xactly

We appear to be zeroing in on a solution.

All marshal points to have Yellow, Yellow/Red, Blue - the use of being that point's decision, as well as at Control's request.
All marshal points to have a Red (as it is now) - only to be used at Control's request.
Additional...All marshal points to have a Black/Orange and number board/marker pen - only to be used at Control's request.

That should give the desired coverage and flexibility for full circuit, trackside removal that is, and has been, lacking.

Edit: obviously the black/orange would be used rarely, because the riders themselves will normally remove their bike from the track when something is (majorly) wrong. It is what to do for the rare times when they don't that I started this thread about.

[Kickaha]

We appear to be zeroing in on a solution.

All marshal points to have Yellow, Yellow/Red, Blue - the use of being that point's decision, as well as at Control's request.
All marshal points to have a Red (as it is now) - only to be used at Control's request.
All marshal points to have a Black/Orange and number board/marker pen - only to be used at Control's request.

That should give the desired coverage and flexibility for full circuit, trackside removal that is, and has been, lacking.

Best solution so far, however it still relies on the competitors knowing what the flags mean and then obeying them

Perhaps penalties for disobeying the flag signals?

[MSTRS:Me]

Perhaps penalties for disobeying the flag signals?

There aren't already??

[FROSTY:Me]

We appear to be zeroing in on a solution.

All marshal points to have Yellow, Yellow/Red, Blue - the use of being that point's decision, as well as at Control's request.
All marshal points to have a Red (as it is now) - only to be used at Control's request.
All marshal points to have a Black/Orange and number board/marker pen - only to be used at Control's request.

That should give the desired coverage and flexibility for full circuit, trackside removal that is, and has been, lacking.

Mate maybee I was being a bit too veiled-The solution has been there the entire time. It shouldn't have been a solution because it shouldn't have been a problem in the first place

[Kickaha]

There aren't already??

generally I have seen a talking to from the stewards, perhaps exclusion from the results might be more of a deterrent