Countersteering advice...

[CookMySock]

I've got so much to learn that it'll become second nature eventually.

Not in my opinion.

Steve

[george formby]

No matter what you think you are doing...if you are travelling at more than 15/20kph...you are countersteering. How you achieve it is up to you, but you are momentarily getting the front to turn microscopically in the 'wrong' direction, which tips the tyre onto the side that you turn in. A push or pull on the bars is the most effective way to achieve this. Anything else is too 'soft' to allow snappy course changes.

I agree, if you turn the bars into a corner first, the bike will move in the opposite direction. EEK! I also agree that to turn quickly requires input from the bars but the type of bike you ride dictates how much input, tyre size, bike weight, unsprung weight, C of G, wheelbase, crank/fly wheel weight, revs, oh goodness their are a heap of factors. Any hoo, I reckon looking were you want to go is the best place to start, the subtlety's of handling come with time.

[magicmonkey]

No, it's an Antipodean thing.
Most/many riders in the OtherPartOfTheWorld prefer,and feel more comfortable, on left-hand bends.

Is that a bit like the water swirling down the plug hole to opposite way

As for your counter-steering practice, Mr magicofmonkey, Sir - forget about it. Concentrate on leading through corner with your inside shoulder (point it into the corner), and on looking through the corner.
And try not to think so much. Feel the corner you must. Be at one with the curve. Wax on, wax off. Ying-tong-iddle-i-po.

Hmm, I'm wanting to get comfortable with countersteering so that I can go teach myself how to swerve effectively. To me, that's an incredibly important skill, right up there next to emergency braking; so I'm going to carry on practicing until it becomes second nature, then I'm going to practice swerving until it becomes second nature. I want to learn what options there are in an emergency and feel comfortable with them pretty quickly, after that I'll chill out and start learning at a more relaxed pace but until then I'll be putting in a lot of miles to make sure I've got it right.

Still, 'practice' is also a bloody good excuse to go for a ride

[Bend-it]

Yup, teach your body something long enough and it'll become 2nd nature...

I prefer right hand bends as well, but that's 'coz:-
1. I'm not leaning my head towards a bank or kerb or some other hard object, and I can see when there's a car coming in the other direction.
2. If I lowside, I'll be going into a bank or veerge, or something probably more forgiving than under a car.
3. There's a beautiful right hander on the motorway offramp I take everyday and get lots of practice on...

Some people prefer to countersteer primarily with their left hand, and keep their right hand concentrating on throttle control... Try that maybe?

[FROSTY:Me]

No, it's an Antipodean thing.
Most/many riders in the OtherPartOfTheWorld prefer,and feel more comfortable, on left-hand bends.

side of the road you ride on has a lot to do with it.
camber and all that

[MSTRS:Me]

I agree, if you turn the bars into a corner first, the bike will move in the opposite direction. EEK! I also agree that to turn quickly requires input from the bars but the type of bike you ride dictates how much input, tyre size, bike weight, unsprung weight, C of G, wheelbase, crank/fly wheel weight, revs, oh goodness their are a heap of factors. Any hoo, I reckon looking were you want to go is the best place to start, the subtlety's of handling come with time.

For sure. The sort of bike determines the amount of effort required. And some (I've ridden 1 or 2) require the nudge to initiate the turn, BUT you then have to keep pushing on the inside bar, otherwise the front wants to turn in sharper still, all by itself. Horrible.

[CookMySock]

The sort of bike determines the amount of effort required. And some (I've ridden 1 or 2) require the nudge to initiate the turn, BUT you then have to keep pushing on the inside bar, otherwise the front wants to turn in sharper still, all by itself. Horrible.

We have two hyosungs that demonstrate this very clearly.

One GT250R has a raised tail (different rear shock) and you only have to think "turn" the damn thing darts at the apex.

One GT650R (standard) and it requires firm bar pressure all the way iiiiin, and all the way ouuuuuut.

They are so completely different to corner hard. Neither are horrible to ride - they are just different.

Steve

[vifferman]

side of the road you ride on has a lot to do with it.
camber and all that

Shirley - you jest.

[MSTRS:Me]

Shows the function of fork angle to be real important. Lift the rear and the front gets slightly closer to vertical and turns in with less effort. Conversely, more rake creates the handling characteristic I described.

[george formby]

For sure. The sort of bike determines the amount of effort required. And some (I've ridden 1 or 2) require the nudge to initiate the turn, BUT you then have to keep pushing on the inside bar, otherwise the front wants to turn in sharper still, all by itself. Horrible.

I've got an 18 incher. Ooh er missus, that would be my front tyre & have to do exactly as you describe when I'm being quick. I hold the front by countersteering otherwise it can feel awfully tucky on the limit. Turns quickly though!

[MSTRS:Me]

I've got an 18 incher. Ooh er missus, that would be my front tyre & have to do exactly as you describe when I'm being quick. I hold the front by countersteering otherwise it can feel awfully tucky on the limit. Turns quickly though!

Not sure that tyre size has a lot to do with it, but fork rake certainly does. Most likely a combo of reasons, including trail etc.
There's a reason a lot of sprotbike riders put a 10mm spacer on the top of their rear shock...

[Ixion]

For sure. The sort of bike determines the amount of effort required. And some (I've ridden 1 or 2) require the nudge to initiate the turn, BUT you then have to keep pushing on the inside bar, otherwise the front wants to turn in sharper still, all by itself. Horrible.

I quite like that characteristic, m'self.

[george formby]

Not sure that tyre size has a lot to do with it, but fork rake certainly does. Most likely a combo of reasons, including trail etc.
There's a reason a lot of sprotbike riders put a 10mm spacer on the top of their rear shock...

Fair call, I have fairly long travel suspension & a bit of rake compared to a sportsbike. I lowered the yokes 10mm which improved turn in & the bike is not much longer than a CBR600. 110/80/18 front & 150/70/17 rear tyres, minimise rolling resistance. Compared to a fireblade I rode recently, at sub 100kmh speeds, the bike turns like an angry weasel. As you mentioned earlier about handlebar input I have quite wide enduro style bars which would accentuate any subtle leverage I use. Good thread.
I just notice what your riding. If i were to buy a sports bike, that would be the bugger for me.

[Slingshot]

This thread is getting way too technical.

Just ride, have fun, don't think too much about what you're doing...focus your energy being aware of your surroundings.

It's incredible...bikes go round corners, regardless if you're focused on counter steering or not.

[CookMySock]

bikes go round corners, regardless if you're focused on counter steering or not.

They do, until its' rider gets a bad fright, and then "the bike" stands itself upright and leaves the road, killing its rider. Obviously, this is a problem.

There is no place on the road for riders who can't instantly and decisively take evasive action in an emergency.

Steve