Well bikers are screwed - ACC levy

[ready4whatever]

Everyone with a Harley Davidson with open pipes roll around parliment open throttle. If that doesnt get attention nothing will

[Brian d marge]

Yep and someone had a thread on here with a link so we could all make submissions. Think it was peasea?? I put mine in. Did you???

Yes

and i don't even live there

Stephen

[PirateJafa]

I must be broken - I don't feel anything much about it at all. Perhaps a tad annoyed. Not really enough emotion to goad me into action.

Maybe (perhaps) [however] {although} we're looking at it all wrong? We're costing us HEAPS for bike crash injuries, and someone has to pay for it. Aren't WE someone? And aren't WE the someones involved? Shouldn't we pay for ourselves?

If ACC gave me the option to tell them to go fuck themselves, I would happily do so. I'd insure myself privately, and then I'd be able to use ALL my road vehicles on the road.

As it is, it looks like my car, my RD350 and my A80 are all going to be going on permanent hold, and I'll be left with just the mintviffer for the road.

You might be happy with this, as you only have one motorbike. But those of us with more than one, it's a fucking shambles. I'd be looking at nearly two grand a year to register my road vehicles alone. And then there's WOFs etc on top of that. And pies.

[Mikkel]

What's also stupid is how they are grouping the bikes to charge rego.
A GSXR600 would pay the $500 levy and a SV650 would pay $750.
How does that make any sense?

That's easy to explain... it doesn't! Make sense that is...

Another thing I fail to see is how on earth they justify that the ACC levy is higher for a motorcycle than it is for a car. After all, a car can carry 4+ passengers and has a much larger potential for collateral damage.
Very rare to hear about drunk motorcyclists who accidentally crashed into a MPV and killed a 6 person family.

Doing the bracketing by engine size doesn't make sense. It would be smarter to do it by power output, cross referenced against rider experience.

The difficulty then becomes how do you obtain accurate HP/torque/kW figures for all the different models, and also take into account any modifications that have been done that improve safety/power etc... Also how do you measure experience? Is there a reliable way to measure and individuals cost to ACC before an accident happens?

It would cost too much to work out the costing on a case by case basis so that is out of the question.

How about getting an ACC rebate? You haven't made a claim in the last X years so you can get a XX% rebate on your payments - force people to ride safer and pay for their own accidents???

Spoken like a true Kiwi. Fucking hell, don't you think that there is enough bureaucrazy (sic) in this country already? How about we factor in what tyres you use on your bike as well. And let's not forget to include stuff like what you had for breakfast - after all extreme flatulence can be a considerable distraction.

Either we have a socialist state or we don't have a socialist state. This amalgam of unnecessary bureaucrazy, political correctness bullshit and pretend socialistic schemes is not working.

[Indiana_Jones]

I got my motorcycle jacket, but I'm walking all the time.

.....takes on a whole new meaning now

-Indy

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

I think Ixion meant www.bronz.org.nz

[Ixion]

So. I gather that people are a tad peeved by the proposal.

But, if it be true that bikes are costing so much, how is it unfair for ACC to charge us that much?

If we can't provide some answers to that question, we won't get far.

So, who has any ideas on why we shouldn't pay what they claim we owe?

There are a few possibilities

1. I personally have never been convinced that off road injuries don't end up included in the claims attributed against the licence levy. Off road should of course be regarded as a sport , like rugby.

2. read this bit carefully

In 2008/09 ACC paid more than $62 million for motorcycle riders but collected only $12.3 million in levies from them.
...
The proposed legislative change to extend the full funding date to 2019 would reduce the effect of residual claims on motor vehicle levies by $100,’ said Mr Judge. ‘However, whether or not this translates into an equivalent reduction in those levies will depend on how best to fund the account fully over the next 10 years. This is something the Board must determine

What this means (I think) is important to motorcyclists. Prior to 1999, ACC operated on a pay as you go basis. Money was collected every year to pay the cliams costs for that year. In 199 they changed to fully funded. That means a huge pile of money is being set aside each year , so that if you are injured now, there is enough money put into an account immediately to pay all the costs your injury is likely to accrue, for the rest of your life.

The problem with this, is that in 1999 there were a lot of people (all sorts, not just motorcyclists) , who had been injured BEFORE 1999. But no money had been set aside to pay for the future cost of those injuries. (the "residual claims" )

So, each year the ACC collect some money from each levy payer to add to the pool, to retrospectively fund those old injuries. They were previously going to try to have all the old claims funded by 2012, Now the government has moved that to 2019. So the amount they need to collect each year is less.

For car drivers, it's no big deal. there are a lot more car drivers and cars now than in , say, 1985. So it's not a big sum.

But for bikes, the picture is different. In the 80s and early 90s there were a HELL of a lot more bikes on the road than now. And, a lot more injuries and deaths. A lot of which are still being paid for. But, there are a lot fewer bikes now than then. So the amount per bike is much higher

What the quote above says , I think, is that the government has said that ACC can take till 2019 to fully fund the 'tail'. But ACC are NOT including that in their calculations . If they did, the OVERALL reduction would be $100 per vehicle . But, for bikes , much more. Of course, that means that NETX year , they'll collect far more than they need.

3. The employee account has a fixed cap on the earners levy. You can't be levied more than a certain sum (about $1000 I think). This is because the payout on ERC is also capped. But there is no cap on vehicle levies. Even though your ERC will be capped. A good argument could be made that the TOTAl payable by any individual should be capped . Only helps those with multiple vehicles of course.

4. A good argument can be made on an equitable basis that ACC ought not to introduce a change of such magbnitude in one hit. The extra payable per year will be many thousands of dollars for some people. Bringing that in in one hit could be argued to be unfair

Give me some more people. We need ammunition.

[Elysium]

Burt Monro would be shaking his head.

[awayatc]

Be easier to go officialy live sumwere else and just come visiting here.......
still covered by acc, and nothing to pay.....
not even fines.......

[Ixion]

I think Ixion meant www.bronz.org.nz

Did I? Yes, I did. Fixed.

[Indiana_Jones]

So. I gather that people are a tad peeved by the proposal.

But, if it be true that bikes are costing so much, how is it unfair for ACC to charge us that much?

What if I said more Maori's were on ACC

Or more faggots were on ACC

and then I demanded they pay more.

It'd be called a racist and homophobe.

But hey it's ok to pick on some minorities like motorcyclists and gun owners.

-Indy

[Sheba]

Geez, this news tampers the excitement of newbies like me working to get a license and first bike. Makes me seriously reconsider the decision. Or just ride without rego like someone suggested and pay the fine if caught.

[zeocen]

I personally haven't read further than the first page, but if there is going to be a mass stand off somewhere, I'll be bringing my wife-raping-drug-dealing-p-addicted Hornet 919 to the party, lord knows a fucking Hornet needs $750 to keep it's MASSIVE 240kmph top speed limit at bay .... I guess the saving I've been doing for a second bike is going to go for levies now.

[EXCDirt]

Just put your rego on hold and take the heat ($) of the tickets...... Until they put that shit up. 3 tickets for no rego equals years rego. (I know the insurance argument)
Cnuts!

[AllanB]

What if I said more Maori's were on ACC

Or more faggots were on ACC

and then I demanded they pay more.

It'd be called a racist and homophobe.

But hey it's ok to pick on some minorities like motorcyclists and gun owners.

-Indy

Imagine how much you'd have to pay if you were a Maori, homo, motorcycle rider - the Government would own your arse (so to speak).