Well bikers are screwed - ACC levy

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

Of course, whoever is the cause of the injury should be able to be sued to recover costs, in the same way as insurance companies chase money from the "at fault" party in a crash.

So make the "No Fault System" to a "At Fault System" in general and then in that case the money they get back doe we also get the no claims and cheaper ACC

[discotex]

The cops would probably do more checks at random from now on, so anytime...

Good thing they're looking at the pursuit guidelines eh


The good news is Raj now knows what his new KB name should be....

IShouldHaveStayedOnMyR64Life



When's the protest? I'm there.

And those who say it shouldn't inconvenience others.... Compare cheese cutter protest to the truckies and bus drivers! If it doesn't inconvenience people you have no teeth. We need to grind Auckland to a halt until we get a result.


My suggestion is start with a big ride/blockade but then setup flash-mobs of bikers. I.e. setup a text list and text 20-50 bikers to go and block a random intersection. That we we don't all have to take as much time off work to protest and it'll keep the police gussing.

Do that 3 times a day and people will start to notice us.

[shakey]

after everyone has calmed down a bit lets us our heads here for a second. this is the way to win the battle. protests in blind anger wont achieve anything, although im bloody keen to go on one. the following is taken from the acc submission documents online.

the ACC submission documents state " 1. What is cross-subsidisation? Cross-subsidisation is where cost of claims is not fairly shared among those responsible for those costs - in this case we are referring to vehicle classes.
2. What is ACC doing about cross-subsidisation? ACC has undertaken a review of the levy classification system with the purpose of identifying options to reduce cross-subsidisation between vehicle classifications to ensure that the costs of claims are more fairly shared among the vehicle classes that are responsible for those costs."

clearly, in any submission or protest, pains should be made by us to point out that we agree with the acc stance and position - that of making those responsible pay. their own document states they are making those responsible pay. the key word here is "responsible" and clearly by hitting us bikers they have not done what they say they will do. they are making the victim pay, not those responsible.

the way you beat beaurocracy is to use thier own documents against them. and most members of the public hate the increasing bearocracy in this country, so you end with a good chunk of them on your side.

[shakey]

the other thing thats going to start happening is when someone gets knocked off their bike by a car, motorists are going to start getting the crap beat out of them by frustrated angry bikers.

you can see that coming a mile off.

[jono035]

Dunno if anyone else has mentioned it but it would seem that the ACC levy component is going to increase to $745, from $252... Currently licensing is $380, so there is $130 of non-ACC in there making it $875 per year for 601cc+.

An at-fault system would simply end up with the american situation where people end up in crippling debt from healthcare bills when they fall through the cracks or get dicked by their insurance company and that kind of situation is bad for society as a whole.

Healthy members of society benefit society as a whole.

Edit: Does someone know the numbers in terms of average accidents per motorcyclist per year rather than per km travelled? That would be the more telling factor, if you're 16x more likely to have an accident per km travelled by motorcyclists on average travel 16x less distance than a cage then it all comes out in the wash...

[mynameis]

Someone fly a plane into the bee hive. or park a truck outside of it full of explosives. I saw this thing off CI how this dude sent pipe bombs through the mail to government leaders which blew their face off pretty much, he got caught 20 years later only because his brother dobbed him in. I'm pissed

you little prick, been watching too much Tele

Look how the Truckers did it. They let people know in advance, did it peacefully. Many people got in behind and supported them for it.

Pissing off the randoms in the streets won't help our cause, if anything, it will make it worse. We need to get the "general" public on our side and not all hating us for clogging up the streets while they try to get to their holiday destination for a much needed break.

+1

this will also be detrimental to motorcycle shops and their employees if these proposals go ahead...this increase is unjustifiable.

Bikes have less weight, less congestion, less emissions...how can this increase be reasonable. What constitutes a 'big' bike? 601cc...pfffttt.

If a protest is to go ahead KBers we will need to have passion like the French people and protest hard!

Because they said bikers are 16 times more likely to crash.

Nick Smith best watch out for himself now.....

-Indy

What ya gonna do, flash him some titties?

You really haven't got a clue, have you!

Give me some of your RogerNomics theory behind ACC/Gubmint/Tax Payer Money.

hahahahaha

The amount of Labour/Helen slender on this site I tell ya..bikers to their own demise

Pricks before this government! Idiot! National Govnt are liars, they are only lining there own pockets and all there business friends over ths one.
Labour govt was the most honest govnt you will be seeing until there crooks that are in are out.
Wait until you have to pay you own hospital bills, or your own private health....if they decide they want to insure you, riding a motorcycle and all.....because that is where this government is heading, you will have to have health insurance.....then lets see who you are calling pricks!

Coming from Little Mr Nobody, learn to spell first. Where did you pull all of that shit from. Thin air. I already have health insurance.

[Hopeful Bastard]

the other thing thats going to start happening is when someone gets knocked off their bike by a car, motorists are going to start getting the crap beat out of them by frustrated angry bikers.

you can see that coming a mile off.

Wont only be the crap that i beat outta them.. I will take their god damned wallet!

[Bangbug]

Ok here we go for 2007 numbers
Motorcycles
73,082
Mopeds
23,106
Excluding lapsed/hold rego numbers.
So: 96188
$62000000 / 96188 = $644 per rego.
$.099 per litre of gas ACC charges (2007)
400 L of gas (low avg guestimate )
so - $40.
$604 for rego's for all mopeds and motorcycles at 2007 levels.
MINUS all those farming, fun, playstation motorcycle OOS injuries etc etc ones and we'd be looking at something not much more than what we are paying now.

So how about a REGO on your licence?
A price for each class of licence but limited to the highest class price wise as we cannot drive multiple vehicles at once.
% wise of driving time just won't work.

MILEAGE WOULD BE EXACT
Ways around everything but if they want it "user pays" that's the best.

[jafar]

Spend some time in the US and see how utterly crap that system works. It makes EVERYTHING more expensive and the insurance industry just screws everyone over.

I have spent a little time in the U.S & there system is a little too far the other way as you seem to suggest, theirs is a user pays system in the worst way.

So make the "No Fault System" to a "At Fault System" in general and then in that case the money they get back doe we also get the no claims and cheaper ACC

If you must run a ACC system then make it one that has half a chance of working, the current "No fault "system has taken away your ability to sue someone for personal damages because it is taken care of by the ACC premiums that we all have to pay. If there is a better case of a concept that simply doesn't work then I'd like to know what it is .

[Bangbug]

oh there's the 2008 numbers
Motorcycles
55,180
Mopeds
19,960

They have some contradictory numbers on the LTSA website.
75k 2 wheelers?
THAT'S just about a $1k each for us, they're making this shit up as they go along!

[Bangbug]

oh there's the 2008 numbers
Motorcycles
55,180
Mopeds
19,960

They have some contradictory numbers on the LTSA website.
75k 2 wheelers?
THAT'S just about a $1k each for us, they're making this shit up as they go along!

could anyone tell me what a fucking moped is?
Isn't that something with pedals AND a motor?
I expect arsehole and elbow are interchangeable names on govt websites

[hayd3n]

why not put this in front of fair go?

its obvious we are being targeted!!

[jafar]

why not put this in front of fair go?

its obvious we are being targeted!!

Isn't Target on a different day ?

[Pedrostt500]

after everyone has calmed down a bit lets us our heads here for a second. this is the way to win the battle. protests in blind anger wont achieve anything, although im bloody keen to go on one. the following is taken from the acc submission documents online.

the ACC submission documents state " 1. What is cross-subsidisation? Cross-subsidisation is where cost of claims is not fairly shared among those responsible for those costs - in this case we are referring to vehicle classes.
2. What is ACC doing about cross-subsidisation? ACC has undertaken a review of the levy classification system with the purpose of identifying options to reduce cross-subsidisation between vehicle classifications to ensure that the costs of claims are more fairly shared among the vehicle classes that are responsible for those costs."

clearly, in any submission or protest, pains should be made by us to point out that we agree with the acc stance and position - that of making those responsible pay. their own document states they are making those responsible pay. the key word here is "responsible" and clearly by hitting us bikers they have not done what they say they will do. they are making the victim pay, not those responsible.

the way you beat beaurocracy is to use thier own documents against them. and most members of the public hate the increasing bearocracy in this country, so you end with a good chunk of them on your side.

We need to be able to show the holes in their statistics, and information gathering, without giving any of our game play away, so they do not have prepared answers, this is not a battle against politicians but a battle against little back room beauracrats who are trying to protect their $100K & $300k a year salarys.
Keep in mind that the major exspense for any Busness is its wage bill, I doubt ACC is any different, yes they may have recently juggled their salarys around by paying some of those who got $300K last year $299,999 thousand this year, they will also get paid their bonuses, and get sent on fact finding junkets to some where nice.
When it comes to manipulating statistics, Beauracrats are master manipulators.

[Triman]

No doubt they're piling off road motorcycle injury claims onto our registration levies because they have no otherway to recoup the expense. What about the dickhaed ignorant tin-top drivers that actually cause the accident injuries in a large percentage of motorcylist claims??? Unfair misreprepresntation for the thousands of us long-time motocyclists who have never had a crash!!