ACC Levies. BRONZ meeting

[Redstar]

Heres a paste from the UK tax costs
Motorcycle (with or without a sidecar) (TC17)
Engine size (cc) 12 months rate 6 months rate
Not over 150 £15.00 Not applicable
151-400 £33.00 Not applicable
401-600 £48.00 Not applicable
Over 600 £66.00 £36.30
now at 45p to the $ perhaps I should stop wingeing and go home?

[Reckless]

BTW I hope what ever the outcome of tonight's meeting will to posted to this thread. And sorry for not making tonight, but I will be at what ever rally is organized to show our feeling.

Yes Plus one for me to! Sorry all!!
I was about to leave at 6:30 and my plumber turned up to put in a vanity as he couldn't come tomorrow as planned for the tile layer on Friday. You see I'm not allowed another road bike till I get the renovations done. Fair enough I've bought 1, crashed it, and 3 MX bikes in the mean time so gotta give her, her wish.

Anyway did you have a good turn out???

Any great new ideas??

[AD345]

pretty reasonable turn-out, must have been around 200 people there.

Most that wanted to got a chance to vent about something or other

The biggest resolutions (IMO) were -
1.Unlawful protests are not condoned but unpeaceable was struck down (yay - loud pipes FTW!)

2. National protest date set for the 17th of November

the rest was pretty much just venting and semantics, so a reasonable result all in all.

[Danae]

Some photos :]

[PrincessBandit]

I thought Ixion did a great job chairing what could have been a potentially unruly/volatile meeting. Everything was kept on track and finished on time with most people getting the chance to say their piece if they wanted.

Great to meet some more kber's and nice to be able to put names to faces now Mom and Maha. And Donor - so nice to see you again!

[kwaka_crasher]

The reality is most motorcycle accidents ARE SINGLE VEHICLE ACCIDENTS.

No. We've been through this. Only 33% of all motorcycle crashes are single vehicle.

Of the multivehicle crashes which make up 67% of all crashes, 62% are other vehicle fault, so 38% of those are the motorcyclists fault. That's 38% of the 67% of multivehicle crashes which is 25% (0.38 x 0.67) of ALL accidents.

So 58% (33% + 25%) of all crashes are motorcyclist fault. But that's not to say 58% of the cost should be laid at the feet of motorcyclists since ACC are playing the blame game.

[crash harry]

Was a good meeting, run well I thought. Thanks to the BRONZ comittee for everything you are doing!

[Jantar]

No. We've been through this. Only 33% of all motorcycle crashes are single vehicle.

Of the multivehicle crashes which make up 67% of all crashes, 62% are other vehicle fault, so 38% of those are the motorcyclists fault. That's 38% of the 67% of multivehicle crashes which is 25% (0.38 x 0.67) of ALL accidents.

So 58% (33% + 25%) of all crashes are motorcyclist fault. But that's not to say 58% of the cost should be laid at the feet of motorcyclists since ACC are playing the blame game.

But even this doesn't tell the full story. According to the Police data for year ended 2008:
96 injuries and 3 fatalities (in single vehicle motorcycle accidents) were due to road conditions;
10 juries and 0 fatalities were due to vehicle fault (so technically still a rider fault);
26 injuries and 1 fatality were due to Avoiding another vehicle,
pedestrian, party or obstacle;
So 10% of injuries and 8% of fatalities were not the fault of the rider even though they were single vehicle accidents.

Or that 58% that are supposedly motorcyclist fault is now reduced to 49%.

[TerminalAddict]

even the out of towners got a voice or two

[PrincessBandit]

even the out of towners got a voice or two

Even Katman got the opportunity to speak.

[kwaka_crasher]

But even this doesn't tell the full story. According to the Police data for year ended 2008:
96 injuries and 3 fatalities (in single vehicle motorcycle accidents) were due to road conditions;
10 injuries and 0 fatalities were due to vehicle fault (so technically still a rider fault);
26 injuries and 1 fatality were due to Avoiding another vehicle,
pedestrian, party or obstacle;
So 10% of injuries and 8% of fatalities were not the fault of the rider even though they were single vehicle accidents.

10% of all injury or 10% of single vehicle injury? i.e how many single vehicle injury motorcycles crashes were there in that period according to the Police - 260?

[Jantar]

10% of all injury or 10% of single vehicle injury? i.e how many single vehicle injury motorcycles crashes were there in that period according to the Police - 260?

A total of 1362 crashes which included 48 fatalities. So this is 10% of ALL crashes that have been included in single vehicle crashes.

[The Pastor]

oh man katman was there i missed him lame.

Very well done, thanks to bronze and Ixion. Good job.

Big thanks to all who turned up, and to those who didnt - nothing will get done if you dont turn up to meetings. Everyone was well behaved.

[Phurrball]

Great meeting BRONZ!

The meeting and proposed protest action made the main RNZ National news bulletin at 6am.

Sadly, I'm off to work shortly, but I assume there will be something on Morning report :YES:

[cstrat007]

You can argue one way or another that your big bike is not dangerous but the reality is that it is.
If you take all the big bikes off the road and put everyone on 250s or 400s it would no doubt result in less accidents and we are fooling ourselves by trying to say any differently.
Acc doesnt care about whether or not you are more comfortable on a 1000cc and find it more pleasurable to ride. Their interests are in keeping the accident rate down (or so they say)

However just becuase this may be the case it does not mean that we should be discriminated against just because the activity is dangerous.

Acc is fundamentally a no fault, no liability scheme and is a corrupt one at that in that we have always payed higher levies than other modes of transport. There is no increase for drunk drivers who cause massive damage in collisions nor for people who drive their car into a crowd of people.
If big bikes are dangerous then perhaps acc should look at providing further training to make it safer. If it is an issue of wrecklessness then perhaps it needs to be policed more thoroughly.

It's not Acc's problem that we enjoy riding big bikes but it is not OUR problem that they're suffering financial hardship and that they're system is flawed. So this is a fundamental question of legaility. It seems they want the best of both worlds and want no liability for people who break the law and cause accidents but take advantage of people who have ridden for a number of years claim free.

Uh, shouldn't this be the other way around?