We have been pushing it hard in Central Otago!

[davereid]

So you think the government will base policy off a study done in 1976 in the USA over our current NZ road statistics..???

No.

But proper investigation of their own data would almost certainly produce the same results.

Thats why they don't publish the raw data.

However, your claim that anyone attibuting blame to the motorist is "bullshitting" is, at best "bullshit".

[dipshit]

However, any motorcyclist claiming that 2/3rds of collisions are the car drivers fault, can point at very good source data.

That is 60% of the multiple vehicle accidents. Of all multiple and single vehicle motorcycle accidents, car drivers are to blame for 40% of all motorcycle accidents. Hardly "most motorcycle accidents are caused by car drivers"

[davereid]

That is 60% of the multiple vehicle accidents. Of all multiple and single vehicle motorcycle accidents, car drivers are to blame for 40% of all motorcycle accidents. Hardly "most motorcycle accidents are caused by car drivers"

I'll help you through this, its not that hard.

75% of biker crashes are multiple vehicle. Thats easy.

66% of those are caused by the car driver.

OK, so 66% of all collisions are the car drivers fault.

But looking at ALL crashes, not just collisions :

Thats 0.75 x 0.66 = 49.5%, so almost most accidents are caused by car drivers, just by considering the multiple vehicle accidents.

But car drivers are implicated in single vehicle crashes as well.

10.9% of motorcycle only accidents listed a car violating the motorcyclists right-of-way as the cause.

It just means that the bike managed to avoid hitting the car, but still crashed.

[Monstaman]

Hardly "most motorcycle accidents are caused by car drivers"

Are you still here?, must be past your bedtime dipshit or is kindy having a late session.

You pick on one sentence and rape it and you are incorrect, take in the bigger picture with ALL the info.

I am not sure if you are amazing or amusing but it is good to larf at you either way, carry on this is fun, you could get a job as a broken record with your (lack of) IQ, the rest of the guys put great info for discussion but your post really come to nothing..... again.

Are you sure you don't wonna whine somewhere else as I am sure there are others who would like to larf at you too.

[dipshit]

I'll help you through this, its not that hard.

Going by an overseas study is irrelevant for our statistics.

What plays a big role in what results you get is how much of a urban/rural split there is. Demographics that have larger urban areas have more of the car vs bike accidents. More open road rural areas have more of the single vehicle motorcycle accidents.

Comparing highly populated European or US statistics will not necessarily be the same as NZ.

[dipshit]

Sadly, these facts have been known for years... they just choose to make up their own data, and we are stuck with that.

If dumb as fuck motorcyclists keep harping on to the media that "most motorcycle accidents are caused by car drivers" ... then it will be us motorcyclists that will lose credibility.

[Mikkel]

Seriously, i am utterly convinced your average motorcyclist is as thick as two planks.

What I am doing, is *NOT* writing to my local newspaper going - "waaaaa, it's all the car drivers fault, waaaa."... and making all motorcyclists look like a bunch of fuckwits.

Please, with your limited intelligence - do not write a load of whingeing bullshit in which you have no idea what you are talking about to any form of media. You lot are more than likely doing more harm than good in the long run

And I fully realise most of you will be to thick to grasp this.

While I agree with your point, in principle, I must admit I am amazed that, with your above-average intelligence, you fail to grasp that by throwing abuse at other members you are, in fact, undermining your own credibility.

I'll help you through this, its not that hard.

75% of biker crashes are multiple vehicle. Thats easy.

66% of those are caused by the car driver.

OK, so 66% of all collisions are the car drivers fault.

But looking at ALL crashes, not just collisions :

Thats 0.75 x 0.66 = 49.5%, so almost most accidents are caused by car drivers, just by considering the multiple vehicle accidents.

The truth would be to say that statistically 49.5% of all motorcycle accidents are caused by car drivers.

Which could easily be reformulated to say - not even half of all motorcycle accidents are caused by car drivers.

You gotta love statistics - you can pretty much support whatever foregone conclusions you have by only altering your approach a tiny wee smidgeon.

[dipshit]

While I agree with your point, in principle, I must admit I am amazed that, with your above-average intelligence, you fail to grasp that by throwing abuse at other members you are, in fact, undermining your own credibility.

Oh how tragic. Is the big tough motorcyclist going to cry..??

The truth would be to say that statistically 49.5% of all motorcycle accidents are caused by car drivers.

And that is his overseas study. In NZ it is more like 40% of all motorcycle accidents are caused by car drivers.

At least tell the media that a big portion (40%) of motorcycle accidents are caused by car drivers. Do not bullshit them with "most motorcycle accidents are caused by car drivers"

[davereid]

The HURT report IS old, it was done overseas, but it has never been discredited. The full data set is provided, there is no fiddling of figures, its just simple factual data.

Later studies have found the same as the HURT report, within a few percentage points.

And, if you can, please point me to referenced data that shows any other trend.

Even ACC have used the 66% figure in their own literature. I an searching my archives for a copy of the ACC booklet "Whe you've got to stop use the lot" - attempting to get bikers to use the front brake which used the 66% figure. I'll publish a scan if I can find the bloody booklet in my disorganised filing pile.

Lets go through it again - most can do it in their head, but get yourself a calculator if your head hurts.

75% of all accidents involve a collision.

66% of collisions are caused by car drivers.

In 11% of crashes where a collision does not occur, the motorcyclist fell off because a car driver violated his right-of-way.

That passes the 50% figure by a safe margin.

If you have an intelligent argument, and you can quote some facts that are not produced by an interest group that wont reveal how it got its data then I'll look at it.

Otherwise, really, I can't be interested in your raves.

The traditional art of propaganda, based on saying lies over and over and over really loudly doesnt work anymore. The internet means those who are interested can soon find the real facts.

And just repeating the bullshit mantra, just makes you look more and more foolish.

[Mikkel]

Oh how tragic. Is the big tough motorcyclist going to cry..??

I don't know - do you usually cry yourself to sleep at night? I wouldn't be too surprised. But please, don't just write about it here - go start a blog. There's hardly enough negative emos around tainting the internet with their pathetic whinging as it is.

And that is his overseas study. In NZ it is more like 40% of all motorcycle accidents are caused by car drivers.

At least tell the media that a big portion (40%) of motorcycle accidents are caused by car drivers. Do not bullshit them with "most motorcycle accidents are caused by car drivers"

And in which ways does motorcycling in NZ differ from motorcycling overseas? It's not like we only "educate" the car drivers in this country...

Ultimately all these statistics are irrelevant. After all, if ACC is a no-fault scheme then it can't possibly be relevant who suffers the injury.
Besides, I don't know which part of "...I agree with you point, in principle." that you failed to grasp. However, you missed the point I was trying to get across, namely that depending upon what bias you apply in presenting statistics you can viably support vastly differing conclusions.

[dipshit]

The HURT report IS old, it was done overseas, but it has never been discredited.

But it is not the New Zealand road toll though isn't it.

Maybe you could find a 1968 Japanese study that showed x amount of motorcycle accidents were caused by car drivers too. So what..?? Talk about grasping at straws.

Here is what more relevant to us here and now... http://www.transport.govt.nz/researc...-Factsheet.pdf

[dipshit]

And in which ways does motorcycling in NZ differ from motorcycling overseas? It's not like we only "educate" the car drivers in this country...

WTF..?!?!?

There will be differences from country to country because of population densities, urban/rural mix, and laws and law enforcement and other such variations.

Or would you think a country like Singapore is going to have very similar statistics to the Isle of Man, say...?

[Ixion]

And that is his overseas study. In NZ it is more like 40% of all motorcycle accidents are caused by car drivers.

But, how many car accidents are caused by motorcycles ? b

[Monstaman]

"waaaaa, it's all the car drivers fault, waaaa."... .

. Hardly "most motorcycle accidents are caused by car drivers"

"most motorcycle accidents are caused by car drivers"

"most motorcycle accidents are caused by car drivers"

B motorcycle accidents were caused by car drivers too.

Brokenfuckenrecord, dipshit which you openily admit even by name you have to take out first for place for a single sentence whinger award.

Never met anyone like you (and hopefully won't), honesty I don't know of a septic tank big enough for your shit and dribble, all these guys put in good credible info and you do is shoot them down.

Obviously EVERYONE else on this forum is wrong and we are grateful for your input .. really

[Mikkel]

WTF..?!?!?

There will be differences from country to country because of population densities, urban/rural mix, and laws and law enforcement and other such variations.

Or would you think a country like Singapore is going to have very similar statistics to the Isle of Man, say...?

It was an honest question really. You make fair points that the geography of NZ is not comparable to many other countries and that the laws are different. But in which way would the fact that the HURT report was done in USA between 1976 and 1981 affect the results in comparison to NZ.

We can look at the population density - USA: 31/km², NZ: 16.1/km². Urban/rural mix is a bit harder to quantify, but USA has got some even more sparsely populated places than NZ and vastly more urbanised areas than NZ - so in regards to diversity they would certainly be our equal in that regard. Dunno about the law, they drive on the right - and I suppose that's the biggest difference... not at all that important in my experience.
If we consider the licensing systems, I am of the understanding that USA is one of the few western countries where they have a licensing system that is comparably undemanding to the one we have here. Start driving at 16 and 15 respectively, IIRC.

All in all, I think it's reasonable to propose that the findings of the HURT report are most likely more in tune with NZ than most other western countries.

As for time, I can't really comment - but others have claimed that the findings have been ratified again and again over the years.