The government believes in band-aids rather than safety.Originally Posted by The Stranger
Should be out riding
The government believes in band-aids rather than safety.
You can't save the fallen, direct the lost or motivate the lazy.
Highway Biker
Increase the standards for getting your restricted and full (im talking about car license here) I sat my restricted under the old system (everyone remember a few years ago when they changed it) and that test was a lot harder than the one i had to sit to get my full under the current system (and no it wasn't just my perception as i had more experience then but more the things i had to do. I mean under the current full test i didnt even have to go on the motorway, no 3 point turns or anything like that which i had to do under the old restricted)
Last year I even had a friend who was failing her restricted, the tester was telling her how she had failed and so she started crying so he passed her
Bigger fines or penalties for people driving outside their conditions or under the influence, both car and bike, they are there for a reason.
For cars look into a power cap on the cars that learners and restricted can drive, just like Bikes (i think they do something like this in Aus but may be wrong)
Hardcore Biker
Align licence standards and training for both cars and motorcycles closer to the European models.
Forum whore
I'm not convinced it does beyond a certain point. Or, rather, I think that a rider needs training. Then a period of experience. Then some more training. More experience. etc.
'training' isn't a magic wand that solves all problems.
But to some extent we don't have to 'sell' it.
What I want to do is to have a solid body of proposals that we can put before the minister and the public to say "We are not just whinging about paying more. We have worked on this, and , in the opinion of experienced motorcyclists with hundred of millions of kilometres of experience between them, if the government implement these proposals there will be a marked drop in the motorcycle casualty rate".
If the Minister then says "Piss off, I don't care about reducing the casualty rate and the police say it won't work", well, that's sort of OK. That then becomes a different argument. We've stepped up to the plate , TPTB haven't.
Forum whore
which are? I know (sort of) UK. Don't know others.
Highway Biker
If I was feeling harsh, Ixion, then a fail on the 1/2-day basic training would be a fail of the test, and no licence given to the applicant.
Look, the written and oral test questions are a joke. So the buck stops with the practical test, and you wonder how some people passed that. It's not asking too much to do a test on a scooter to get a feel for how other road users operate.
Christ, if you are allowed to ride a scooter with a car licence then surely you should prove that you can!
I think it's good that you are considering these dangling carrot options, but what about the stick approach.
Should these charges come into law, what then? By all means, promote the positive but make no bones about what will likely happen should these changes come in. Threaten them with mass protests, dropped income owing to bikers refusing to pay or offroading their bikes etc.
Mad nagging bitch!
Definitely in for more training....
Maybe discounted ACC levies on production of a RRRS certificate...it would encourage more to do a refresher course every so often.
The BHS is far too easy, as is the restricted. I have never been required to do a hill start or a u turn as part of the testing procedure...and, yes, I do have my full!
Diarrhoea is hereditary - it runs in your jeans
If my nose was running money, I'd blow it all on you...
Forum whore
Should you be able to ?
And, for the avoidance of doubt, this is EXTRA to all the other stuff, not instead of.
Should be out riding
Yeah that hamtpon downs training day is going to be the shiz!
I wouldn't have an issue paying more for ACC if it included more things like this training day and perhaps discounts for approved training.
I think the initial training is pretty crappy but the required training after you get your full licence is non-existant.
You can't save the fallen, direct the lost or motivate the lazy.
Forum whore
Is any of that going to reduce the number of motorcycle ACC claims? If so, by how much?Increase the standards for getting your restricted and full (im talking about car license here) I sat my restricted under the old system (everyone remember a few years ago when they changed it) and that test was a lot harder than the one i had to sit to get my full under the current system (and no it wasn't just my perception as i had more experience then but more the things i had to do. I mean under the current full test i didnt even have to go on the motorway, no 3 point turns or anything like that which i had to do under the old restricted)
Last year I even had a friend who was failing her restricted, the tester was telling her how she had failed and so she started crying so he passed her
Bigger fines or penalties for people driving outside their conditions or under the influence, both car and bike, they are there for a reason.
For cars look into a power cap on the cars that learners and restricted can drive, just like Bikes (i think they do something like this in Aus but may be wrong)
Forum whore
What Hampton Downs training day are you referring to please?
Should be out riding
The on that's on this weekend, its organised by the hamilton motorcycle club and I heard that it was part-funded by ACC but under closer observation there's no mention of ACC on this page.
You can't save the fallen, direct the lost or motivate the lazy.
Hardcore Biker
I'm not suggesting the hp limits described below; more the amount of training and knowledge required.
Taken from:
http://news.motorbiker.org/blogs.nsf...ons-France.htm
Getting Your Motorcycle License in France
21 June 2006
Author: Mike Werner
Location: Normandy, France
The Licence
In France, as in the rest of Europe, you need to have a motorcycle licence (type A) to be able to ride a motorcycle with more than 125 cc (if you have had a car licence for more than 2 years, you are allowed to ride a 125 cc motorcycle with less than 15 hp).
If you're between 18 and 21 years old, you can get the "Progressive" A, meaning your motorcycle is not allowed to have more than 34 hp, and the weight/power ration may not exceed 0.16 kW/kg.
After two years riding with a "Progressive" A license, or if you are older than 21 years, you can get the "Direct" A license, that allows you to ride any motorcycle (in France all motorcycles are restricted to 100 hp maximum).
Rules of the Road
First, you need to learn the general rules of the road (unless you got your car license within the last 5 years). This means learning either in a classroom, or from self teaching.
When you're ready, you need to pass an exam. The exam is a multiple choice style, with a video projector displaying photos and/or videos. The test is timed, and you're allowed to have 5 errors for the 40 questions. Oh yeah... the test is in French.
Motorcycle Control
After you pass the rules of the road test, you need to go to a driving school. This is mandatory, as there are minimum hours you need to be "taught" how to ride. The minimum number of hours you need to train is 8 hours !
The first portion is controlling your motorcycle. This is held in a non-traffic environment, usually on an abandoned parking area. You'll learn how to ride a, usually, 600 cc modified Honda, Suzuki or Kawasaki. The modification consist of a lower power, and crash bars all around the bike.
The training is obviously in harmony with the exam. When you're deemed ready by your instructor, you need to pass the first motorcycle exam.
Motorcycle Control Exam
When you're ready, you need to reserve your first set of tests. At the exam place, you will need to do the following exams.
Motorcycle Training
1. Non Driving Exercise.
The examiner will ask you to do one of several exercises. They can be "walking" your motorcycle through a pylon slalom, forwards or backwards (smaller people often have problems with this), putting your motorcycle on a center stand, etc.
You need to demonstrate that you are able to control the motorcycle even when the engine is not running.
Failure to comply, dropping your motorcycle results in an automatic disqualification, and you need to re-apply for the exam.
2. Mechanical Quiz.
Next on the list are several questions about the mechanical abilities of your motorcycle. They're not very detailed, but you'll be asked how you verify your oil level, tire pressure, chains, etc.
You don't need to be mechanically apt, but you need to know the basic parts of your motorcycle.
Failure to comply, results in an automatic disqualification, and you need to re-apply for the exam.
3. Oral Motorcycle Quiz.
The examiner will ask you, more or less in a conversation mode, specific questions on your ability to understand the differences between riding a motorcycle and driving a car. The questions are on specific motorcycle related laws. Failure to comply, dropping your motorcycle results in an automatic disqualification, and you need to re-apply for the exam.
4. Control at Low Speed.
You need to maneuver your motorcycle through a slalom consisting of pylons in first gear. You are not allowed to touch the ground with your feet, drop a pylon or gasp, drop your bike. They check to see if your posture is correct. If you think that's easy, try it....
Failure to comply, dropping your motorcycle or hitting a pylon results in an automatic disqualification, and you need to re-apply for the exam.
5. Control at Low Speed with Pillion.
Next after point 4, your instructor gets behind you, and then you need to ride another track with pylons at low speed (1st gear). The instructor is not allowed to talk to you to give you advice (but usually they use their legs to signal to you what you need to do).
Failure to comply, dropping your motorcycle results in an automatic disqualification, and you need to re-apply for the exam.
6. High Speed Control.
Now you need to run a fast slalom. This involves you riding your motorcycle at about 40-50 kph through several pylons, U-turn and a fast return. The whole track needs to be done between 18 and 21 seconds! If you go too fast, or too slow you disqualify ! Too fast is rare, but too slow happens all the time.
Failure to comply, dropping your motorcycle results in an automatic disqualification, and you need to re-apply for the exam.
7. Emergency Control.
At the end of #6, you are required to show that you are able to perform an emergency operation. This is either an obstacle avoidance (like a car door opening - not a real one, just a pylon) followed by emergency braking, or emergency braking by using your engine. Usually the speed is about 70 kph.
You must start the maneuver at a certain point, AND you need to stop before a certain spot. If not, you're out! Failure to comply, dropping your motorcycle results in an automatic disqualification, and you need to re-apply for the exam.
8. Oral Exam.
Once you've reach this stage you're almost done. Now you get to sit in an office, where they're going to quiz you for all the specific laws that apply only to motorcycles. It's usually in a more easy going environment, and often, at this stage, they are more or less easy going. Unless you're really stupid and answer all questions wrong, you'll pass this bit.
Traffic Riding
Although the traffic riding can be done concurrent with the motorcycle control, most schools choose to do this after the control exams (at least they know you'll not drop their precious motorcycle). You'll be riding your motorcycle equipped with an ear-piece in your helmet so you can hear your instructor talking to you via a walkie-talkie. Usually the instructor is in a car.... You need to spend at least 12 hours riding in traffic to be allowed to do your next exams.
Once your instructor deems you ready, you need to do your exam. Using the same walkie-talkie technique, the examiner drives behind you telling you which way to go. The exam lasts 30 minutes, and not complying with ANY traffic rule disqualifies you!
Points
Once you get your precious motorcycle license, you get 6 points (normally you get 12). Any infraction, speeding or rules of the road, points get deducted. Once you've got 0 points, you lose your license and you need to start from scratch, often after 3 years!
If you've managed to ride without a loss of points for 2 years, you get the full 12 points!
The whole process can last about one year! There are accelerated schools, where you can try to get your permit in a few days by a concentrated education.
So, you can assume one thing. A French biker knows how to ride!
Forum whore
What are French motorcycle crash rates like? (asking cos I don't know). No point just having tougher tests if they don't actually mean fewer crashes.
Hardcore Biker
Hmmm... Good point. I'll see if I can hunt some out.
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