We are losing the battle to ACC

[Squiggles]

blah

Read up on Ghandi...

The time for peaceful protest is still with us, should their plans go ahead then this may change but if it does happen there's every chance we'll no longer stand alone...

From a cagers pov, causing a traffic jam for a cause they know not of is only going to frustrate. They'll know exactly whats happening on the 17th (and it will disrupt, but not intentionally)

[Reckless]

I have said all along we need to protest against NATIONAL not ACC. I made this point on the t shirt thread and got the Nats logo put on there.

OK here's a weapon we have! "The internet" and not just bitching about ACC on KB!

I'm gonna Send Ixions submission to everyone in my address book like a chain letter even to my Business & Family contacts.

OK I just edited all the extra lines out, it shortened it a bit then

A short note from my self and the following.

Vote National OUT!!
The ACC Campaign is a LIE!
Read the Truth!!
Join us or Your Next!!
Send this information on to all in your address book please!!!!

I don't mind if some, all or only a few read or even skim it if we can get just a few people out there spouting our message to their friends its a start!

Its kept its formatting pretty well and I don't know how to attach it here so if you want a copy so you don't have spend time to edit it and you can just forward it on email me reckless@xnet.co.nz

[FastBikeGear]

Sure: I advocate a controlled aggressive slow ride along the Southern Motorway blocking all lanes for several hours over and over again until they pay attention.........

No! we win this by keeping the wider masses supporting us. I am sure that we can come up with creative ideas for protesting that won't disrupt or inconvenience the public.

Get the message across that we are just the first of many a minority to be targeted - we are just the easiest of the pickings.

The change is:
Fundamentally wrong - going against the original idea of what ACC was setup for.
Discriminatory - against bikers for the meantime, but soon to spread to others minorities.

Stop the 'angry bikers' bollocks and start making the public aware that we are just the first line of attack against this change which will affect ALL NEW ZEALANDERS who want to use ACC in the future.

Spot on!

The govt pushes one divisive message - cars subsidise you

The answer is to push one even more powerful message instead. Switch and set the agenda. Too many messages results in confusion. But find a good one that is more interesting to media to drown out ACCs drivel meme. Goal - every Kiwi knows it.

IMO best picks would be one of

1. This is a back door way for a fault based scheme and heres how it will affect other (main) groups taken to logical conclusion...
2. Bikers made to carry can for failed road safety experiment commenced 2003 but failure to deal to cause will see massive hikes fopr other groups inevitable as the situation worsens.

Not environment - people have green fatigue
Not parking etc as not such an emotive button to push
Stay away from pushing the bikers are philanthropists, or poor us taxed off roads. Too off the relate it to me me me (the non biker majority) topic, sympathy more likely from arguments that are inclusive, and concern fairness or fear mongering. Kiwis pride on a fair go.
.

Spot on. We need a simple consistent message with a few memorable lines.

Read up on Ghandi...

The time for peaceful protest is still with us, should their plans go ahead then this may change but if it does happen there's every chance we'll no longer stand alone...

From a cagers pov, causing a traffic jam for a cause they know nothing of is only going to frustrate. They'll know exactly whats happening on the 17th (and it will disrupt, but not intentionally)

Well put! I think Ghandi's protests were once described as "passive resistance" He kept the wider audience on his side at all time.

I have said all along we need to protest against NATIONAL not ACC. I made this point on the t shirt thread and got the Nats logo put on there.

OK here's a weapon we have! "The internet" and not just bitching about ACC on KB!

I'm gonna Send Ixions submission to everyone in my address book like a chain letter even to my Business & Family contacts.

Excellent it's a great submission.

Also lets allow room for National to come out and re-evaluate their options.

[wingrider]

In the past two weeks I have never had as many strangers (all non bikers) both male and female that have come and spoken to me and TELL me that this is wrong. Not one mention of them seeing me or any others as leather clad moorons.

The majority of them have also stated that they consider JK as a front man only because he's got a cute smile.

Also the majority stated that they voted national at the last election and consider it a mistake because of the hidden agenda's that are just coming to light.

Yes natinal will want to do this early in the piece believing that we will just roll over and forget about it.

I reiterate and support those that state we must now include JK in this protest and not allow him to sit at the back and smile to the crowd.

His Ministers might make the legislations but it is he that has the final say.

If we want to piss anyone off then it needs to be those National MP's and any of their supportive MP's from other parties. Get onside with all the other groups to show support where applicable when they protest about changes that will affect them.

There is a ground swell starting to rise up. What it needs is a united front with each supporting the other so that national is fronting a mass whenever they try to bring in things via the back door and no one is seen as a small splinter group.

Also show national that we will not allow them to protect commentators from their coillition partners that make statements that are offensive to the greater majority of the public just so they can hold a balance of power.

I for one will not stand by and watch these bastards stuff up not only my life but those of my children and grandchildren.

I am not prepared to break the law but I will partake in passive aggression for the benefit of all.

[Pixie]

You're all correct: we are losing, we don't have the money to fight them in the media.

You're also correct when you identify National as the culprit instead of the ACC.

The ONLY way IMO to get air time is to create mahem on the roads; we can do this riding as we see many tin tops drive.

We can ride slowly in groups, we can use all the car parks, we can do many things that will get attention besides just riding single lane and not making others feel our anger.
I believe our feel good ride to Wellington will do little unless it is followed or preceeded by disruptive protest action.

I hope to be there but I don't expect more than a discount on the percentage.

Ultimately,we may have to do this and also tear up our registration labels on TV if enough of us show some spine.

[DidJit]

...From a cagers pov, causing a traffic jam for a cause they know not of is only going to frustrate. They'll know exactly whats happening on the 17th (and it will disrupt, but not intentionally)

No! we win this by keeping the wider masses supporting us. I am sure that we can come up with creative ideas for protesting that won't disrupt or inconvenience the public.

Ultimately,we may have to do this and also tear up our registration labels on TV if enough of us show some spine.

The greater public will understand and be tolerant if they do know about the cause, and many of them do. What we are all doing right now — actively letting our non-biker friends & colleagues know about the shafting the government is planning for the people of NZ — is raising awareness and the beginnings of a groundswell of support.

If we were to stage a 'disruptive' protest as we've gone about the ride on the 17th — i.e. informing police authorities, showing proper organisation, making the greater public aware of our planned action well in advance and telling them why — then I think the greater public will be right behind us.

Also, I think it is time our protest messages are more inclusive of the people of NZ. This proposal doesn't just affect bikers — it is just the beginning. If these proposed measures were to go through, there will be more and more hard times and loss of freedoms for everyone ahead.

George Orwell's warning, made in 1948, seems to be of more and more relevance these days...

[StoneY]

If we were to stage a 'disruptive' protest as we've gone about the ride on the 17th — i.e. informing police authorities, showing proper organisation, making the greater public aware of our planned action well in advance and telling them why — then I think the greater public will be right behind us.

They were not happy with the Truckies man, even with 2 weeks of publicity about the rolling truck protest

I still say thats to be left till there is NO other choice
Right now the average everyday Kiwi is behind us, keep em onside by showing how reasonable, ballanced and considerate Bikers REALLY are

I have only recieved any sort of negative feedback at ASB bank where my banking officer tried to justify the ACC levies to me on the grounds ACC have been spammimng, and refused to see the true figures (some banker)
Obviously ASB and some of the subsidiaries are in on the gig.....


Kiwibank and Rabo now have all my business and my new home loan

[MSTRS:Me]

Not parking etc as not such an emotive button to push

You sure about that?
If MrCage is faced with the prospect of having 'his' park taken by a biker (in a car), he will be only too happy to support us. Said MrCage is lazy, and will be unmotivated to act, UNLESS his freedoms are under threat.

[Chrislost]

I hate to say it but the ACC's PR department is winning!

The ACC is 100% consistent about the $77 dollar message and it is sticking. All the submissions we sent today arn't worth a single opportunity for the ACC to get their repeated message printed in one more paper that "even with the proposed motorcycle levy increases car drivers are subsidising motorbike ACC liabilities to the tune of $77."

Yes we all have each other convinced here, but we are talking to the converted and we are a minority. We need to get Les on the radio again - he's great at this.

We need to join and address every public forum on the Internet where this can be discussed.

The war for the publics mind is not going to be drawn out. In fact I think it will be over the day after we hit Wellington. Everyone will be tired of us and the ACC and this story by then. We the public has a short attention span....say is that a fly on your head?

This is a marketing battle. Our cause will be won or lost on how National perceive their chances of getting car drivers to side with them (and vote for them at the next election)

• Their message is consistent
• Their message is very simple to understand
• Their message is believable (We are bikers they are a government department with no reason to lie)
• Their message directly impacts on the reader ($77 dollars out of your pocket)

We need to fight fire with fire and place some advertisements of our own.

We also need to be able to tell our story very simply in less than 100 words and with one or two key simple memorable messages. We need to fund and initiate our own marketing campaign so that we can tell our story without interference,

Who else out there has had some marketing experience, has some time available, lives in Auckland and would like to work with me on this?

We only need a small team to focus on this.

I Didnt realise there was a battle against acc?

I thought that a few bikers had organised a protest or somthing, but without coming to kiwibiker.co.nz i didnt know that ANYTHING was happening.

I do live under a rock, but my radio goes(havnt heard anything there) and i read the neawspaper seen a (couple of bits n bobs there a few weeks ago)
Alas, i think you may need to actually tell some people about your battle, else its kind of not even a crusade...

[ManDownUnder]

Read up on Ghandi...

The time for peaceful protest is still with us, should their plans go ahead then this may change but if it does happen there's every chance we'll no longer stand alone...

From a cagers pov, causing a traffic jam for a cause they know not of is only going to frustrate. They'll know exactly whats happening on the 17th (and it will disrupt, but not intentionally)

Peaceful protests... I like them. Use the system against itself.

For example... park, downtown, one carpark per bike. Paid - all legit... when the maximum period is up, move the bikes. One carpark up or down ought to do it. Don't impact places like NewMarket or other major shopping centres. That's not fair on retailers. But if parking around ACC or other key agencies happened to be really badly hit it'd be kind of ironic wouldn't it?

[idleidolidyll]

They were not happy with the Truckies man, even with 2 weeks of publicity about the rolling truck protest

I still say thats to be left till there is NO other choice
Right now the average everyday Kiwi is behind us, keep em onside by showing how reasonable, ballanced and considerate Bikers REALLY are

I have only recieved any sort of negative feedback at ASB bank where my banking officer tried to justify the ACC levies to me on the grounds ACC have been spammimng, and refused to see the true figures (some banker)
Obviously ASB and some of the subsidiaries are in on the gig.....


Kiwibank and Rabo now have all my business and my new home loan

One of our trucks was in the Trucker protest. The number of cheers and the support was actually outstanding and the organisation behind the trucker protest was excellent.

We need MUCH more media coverage in order to educate people like your ASB workmates: I don't believe we will get enough with non disruptive protest

[Hanne]

Had an interesting encounter yesterday, literally with a random off the street. And if this was anything to go by, we are not losing.

I was walking home with my bike gear (was dropped at work) and a roadside avocado seller tried to get me to buy some avocadoes. Said sorry but my arms were full, couldn't carry them and he said that's what the bike's for, eh.

So I told him yeah, but because of the proposed ACC levies I could no longer afford one. Bit cheeky, but we got talking, he hadn't heard that much about what was happening but after just a few mins he was totally on side and signed the petition I happened to have in my backpack.

Personally I reckon it is encounters like that that will really have most effect on getting public onside. This is the personal interaction stuff, the stuff people remember becasue it puts a face to things, not just 'big bad bikers'. Sometimes you don't quite realise how much progress you have made, but the most effective things take time for the quiet groundswell to get noticed. Far better take this approach now that just a flash - in -the - pan huge angry knee jerk etc reaction that is forgotton in a week.

So talk to people, might not seem like much but if everyone talks then word of mouth can go a long way.

[BMWST?]

Sure: I advocate a controlled aggressive slow ride along the Southern Motorway blocking all lanes for several hours over and over again until they pay attention.........

thats illegall.Keep left unless passing....

[idleidolidyll]

thats illegall.Keep left unless passing....

we're not in Britain

when did you last see a cop pull over ANYTHING for this

besides, it would be vvveeerrryyy eeeaaasssyy ttooo ssslllooowwwlllyyy pppaasss eeeaaaccchhh oootthheeerrr.........aagggaaiinnn annnddd aaggaaaaiiinn

[BMWST?]

we're not in Britain

when did you last see a cop pull over ANYTHING for this

besides, it would be vvveeerrryyy eeeaaasssyy ttooo ssslllooowwwlllyyy pppaasss eeeaaaccchhh oootthheeerrr.........aagggaaiinnn annnddd aaggaaaaiiinn

just because you havent seen a cop do it doesnt mean they cant,or wont...I think we may need to up the anti,but we need a way to hit the acc and the nats ,WITHOUT pissing off joe public.
Make no mistake theis is The ACC They will have the general gist instructed from n high,but these ideas are ACC not the Nats.