Maori threaten to scuttle ETS.

[wingrider]

FRONT PAGE.. STUFF.

Even the Maori members of their own party are seeing through the lies and deception presented to them in respect of the ETS.
Lack of consultation and missrepresented figures from who other than Nick smith.

We need to run with this as a way of getting a minority in support.

If they can see the fault with this agreement, I'm sure they will see the fault with ACC

[StoneY]

Yeah huge outcry that only the 5 richest Iwi in NZ profit from this, not 'all Maori' which even then is BS as it sis a national (as in our nation not the part) issue, and wtf EFT has to do with the treaty I will never know

Another attempt to grab cash, and this time it was offered as a bribe by the sitting government FFS!

[Ixion]

This seems to have possibilities.

I see the Harold hints that this could break up the cosy relationship between Maori and National. Which would definitely be a win for us.

And this is another of the Nickster's portfolio's , isn't it?

I don't understand this sets stuff (mainly cos I zoned out on it years ago, and haven't taken any notice of it).

Is this something that would have bikers divided, or is this a "rich fat cats against everybody else" thing ?

An 11th hour revolt within the Maori Party is threatening to torpedo the Emissions Trading Scheme deal with the Key Government.

Even if the revolt does not succeed - Environment Minister Nick Smith is hoping to secure passage of the bill this afternoon - the damage to the relationship between the Maori Party and the Government could be irreparable.

[Bald Eagle]

This seems to have possibilities.

I see the Harold hints that this could break up the cosy relationship between Maori and National. Which would definitely be a win for us.

And this is another of the Nickster's portfolio's , isn't it?

I don't understand this sets stuff (mainly cos I zoned out on it years ago, and haven't taken any notice of it).

Is this something that would have bikers divided, or is this a "rich fat cats against everybody else" thing ?

It's a smoke and mirrors show from the global warming crowd.
I say bring on the global warming then I won't need heated grips on the VF

[Ixion]

Um

My understanding is that the issue isn't a "global warming or not" thing

Rather, the government has agreed to pay someone (buggered if I know who), billions of dolalrs, because we produce too much carbon, or not enough ,or some such.

And the government want the billions of dollars to be paid for along the lines of "Big companies pay zero, Joe Bloggs pays shitloads" sort of formula.

And have secured Maori party backing by a promise to kick back some of the rake off to a selct handful of iwis.

Correct me if I'm wrong. Like I said, i know next to nothing about it.

And if anyone knows who gets the billions, I'd be right interested. I have my suspicions.

Main point is, if the Nickster's in charge of it and the wheels are falling off, that has implications for other stuff he's involved with. How unpopular can one man be before Mr key decides he's a ;iability?

[mashman]

Simple economics, yeah that'll be right...

Well we are a Global Economy, not a local economy, not a national economy, not a continental economy, not an international economy, but a GLOBAL ECONOMY... someones needs more money for something and we're about to foot the bill...

[mashman]

And if anyone knows who gets the billions, I'd be right interested. I have my suspicions.

Heh, i'll go for 2 guys having a pissing contest "i've got more cash than you"... There are always 2 main political parties for every democracy, so i can't see why it would be anything other than that!!!

[Hinny]

Main point is, if the Nickster's in charge of it and the wheels are falling off, that has implications for other stuff he's involved with. How unpopular can one man be before Mr key decides he's a iability?

The thing is: He's one of the best they have got!

[StoneY]

Go beyond the climate change issue, and its a rich cats vs the rest gig

This basically allows for the general public and evreyday worker to pay the emissions bills of ALL the corporates in NZ, and another bogus issue here is that the fart tax has been re-born in disguise as Farmers are being targeted for emissions....like what fucking emmissions?

The grass their animals eat, and the trees they have to hold the hills together more than = the outputs as far as carbon sinkage goes on any NZ farm, this was prroven by Massey University and just ignored by the Nat's

I have followed this one closely, and I am no 'green freak' nor am I a 'damn the earth I want my steak' guy

Its simply WRONG on every level, and National used this issue to assist their campaign

The greenest country on earth buying credits off other countries that can afford their own anyway....its just bullshit of the smelliest order

And to make a Maori vs Pakeha issue of it is even worse, how could National not see that coming from this?

What I do take a LOT of heart from here is that for once, the everyday Maori has stood up and said "No' this is not right' (note I say everyday, not the 5 rich Iwi who have already been well 'overcompensated' for the treaty issues they KEEP tabling even after being compensated)

[Pixie]

It's a smoke and mirrors show from the global warming crowd.
I say bring on the global warming then I won't need heated grips on the VF

My too! I'm a reptile,we never had it so good 65 million years ago before the global temperatures crashed.

[Katman]

While Hone Harawira remains in the Maori Party they can go fuck themselves.

[wingrider]

Um

My understanding is that the issue isn't a "global warming or not" thing

Rather, the government has agreed to pay someone (buggered if I know who), billions of dolalrs, because we produce too much carbon, or not enough ,or some such.

And the government want the billions of dollars to be paid for along the lines of "Big companies pay zero, Joe Bloggs pays shitloads" sort of formula.

And have secured Maori party backing by a promise to kick back some of the rake off to a selct handful of iwis.

Correct me if I'm wrong. Like I said, i know next to nothing about it.

And if anyone knows who gets the billions, I'd be right interested. I have my suspicions.

Main point is, if the Nickster's in charge of it and the wheels are falling off, that has implications for other stuff he's involved with. How unpopular can one man be before Mr key decides he's a ;iability?

My understanding was that none of the major companies or farmers will pay anything towards costs. National did not accept Labours viewpoint that everyone would contribute with farmers and major companies payin a bit more.

In return for support, maori get to plant trees on DOC land and then get all the returns from logging rights in return.

This is vote buying in its simplest terms.

National is worried that they will lose maori support for confidence and supply. They are bending over backwards to keep that support.

Problem is that the maori cuacus is answerable to ALL iwi and MUST consult before giving agreement.

Looks like they only talked with the 5 main IWI and forgot bout the rest of their own people.

Its the grass roots of the membership who are up in arms as there is nothing in it for them and it will place all in a level of debt for the next 40+ years that they cant afford whilst they watch a select few eat the pork and puha.

[rainman]

My understanding is that the issue isn't a "global warming or not" thing

Rather, the government has agreed to pay someone (buggered if I know who), billions of dolalrs, because we produce too much carbon, or not enough ,or some such.

And the government want the billions of dollars to be paid for along the lines of "Big companies pay zero, Joe Bloggs pays shitloads" sort of formula.

And have secured Maori party backing by a promise to kick back some of the rake off to a selct handful of iwis.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

No, I think you nailed it.

I wrote some comments on this in another thread that might be useful:
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...2&postcount=18

And if anyone knows who gets the billions, I'd be right interested. I have my suspicions.

Carbon trading is inherently distributive - as in from the wealthy industrialised nations who exploited fossil fuels early to build their economies, to the poor buggers who haven't yet. It's a bit more complex than that, but there's good reason to find ways, even expensive ones, to not have the BRICs and Africa ramp up to the energy/emissions intensity per unit of GDP of, for example, the US. (Although, given the prospects for readily available oil in the near future, perhaps this is not a high risk).

I have a good podcast (from the LSE) on it somewhere, if you can spare an hour to listen to an academic economist (Nicholas Lord Stern of Brentford, I think) explain the idea in about 6 headline numbers.

[k2w3]

It's no fucking surprise Harewira wasn't chucked out. They let the hoo-ha calm down a bit and he's back in. Doesn't take away from the fact that he's a racist prick who is obviously welcome in the Maori party.