The bigger picture.

[PrincessBandit]

Katman, she'll win bro You know this! on ya for answering the questions, for the record, I get it and I get that there isn't one of us here that is squeaky clean, so lets get away from casting naspursions and concentrate on what can be done.

Do you mean casting nasturtiums?

[caseye]

I taught I did, butt noew I'm not suure! LOl Go easy on him PB.

[MSTRS:Me]

(Happy John?)

Deliriously so. A carmine epistle day, it is.

[Katman]

Deliriously so. A carmine epistle day, it is.

Really? You must be easily impressed.

Anyone with half a brain could have figured out what my answers would be without having to ask.

[Ronin]

Really? You must be easily impressed.

Anyone with half a brain could have figured out what my answers would be without having to ask.

So you didn't have to ask then?

[jeffs]

Thanks for answering this "half brains" questions

I must be half brained. Because, yes I did not know what your answers would be, because as much as you may be insulted by this, I do not know you

Yes you are right there are bad riders.

Some of these bad riders may even be trained to change their ways.

But there are also people who try to be good riders. Ones who try to ride within their ability, because they know they are not immortal.

These riders also face some of the same risks every time they ride ( loose gravel, bad car drivers,.... )

Some of these riders do not ride with other bikers, they use their mopeds, scooters, bikes to commute, so can not influence the riding style of other riders.

And these riders are also going have to pay more.

And why, because ACC have changed they way they wish to be funded, and to be self funded, need more money.

And if this had not changed and ACC still ran a pay as you go scheme, ACC may one day have attempted to reduce the injury rate by investing more money towards educating bikers. Or even running adds like the Cross road add they run for cars, but saying "look out for bikes, it costs us money if you hit them".

But no, all they have done is proposed an increase in charges to cover the projected costs of running a self funding scheme.

ACC have just sat back and watched the injury rate increase over time and done nothing.

[Katman]

ACC have just sat back and watched the injury rate increase over time and done nothing.

Unfortunately, neither have us motorcyclists.

[MSTRS:Me]

Unfortunately, neither have us motorcyclists.

I'm not so sure about that. When I started riding in the 1970s, hardly anyone wore (appropriate) gear, me included. The gear at the time was not of a high crash-worthy standard. It was perhaps prohibitively expensive. Those that could afford it, opted for the early fullface helmets, and often ended up with broken necks, because they were so heavy. There were no courses aimed at motorcyclists. The best you could do was a defensive driving course, which was totally theoretical, based in a classroom of an evening and had no m/c component at all. I rode through to the mid-80s and all I ever wore was helmet (openface with a visor), jeans, shoes, ski jacket and gloves for warmth. I was no exception.
I took up riding again in the 90s and little had changed (at least for me), but gradually I got proper gear, and today, apart from the 'bullet-proof' idiots, most riders have good gear. There are also the likes of RRRS. There is KB etc, for some to use as a learning tool.
The injury rate is NOT increasing. As a % of bikes on the road, it is fairly static or going down, and the death rate is definitely down.
That is not to say we can relax, though.

[dipshit]

I'm not so sure about that. When I started riding in the 1970s, hardly anyone wore (appropriate) gear

And remember the compulsory use of helmets is another one of those laws forced upon us by the "nanny state" which the likes of BRONZ tried to oppose.

I wouldn't exactly say motorcyclists have tried to make motorcycling safer.

[Swoop]

Oh and while on that note, the meek will inherit the earth one day...

It will be a very short day, since the strong will take it back, immediately.

[Ronin]

Unfortunately, neither have us motorcyclists.

It seems to me that perhaps your view is based on the behaviour of the idiotic few rather than the majority? From the time I spend on the road I reckon that the idiot bike makes up maybe 1% of the bikes seen. Hi vis vests are common. Riders make informed choices about tyres and gear etc.

Sure there are those who will never or who are slow to learn but that shouldn't condemn us as a group.

[Ronin]

It will be a very short day, since the strong will take it back, immediately.

With extreme prejudice.

[Grubber]

And I fall somewhere in the middle of those two views. I agree there are those out there who tarnish the image we would perhaps prefer to have, but it is not up to us as a group to 'rein them in'. That is a job for the police. And physics. The crash stats of the loose units may not be flash, but they aren't enough in the big picture to get to where we are at right now.
The recent new laws for boi-racers are a result of a certain type of car driver. But it's not all car drivers that have led to those laws, is it? But those are laws about behaviour. If car drivers were being asked to pay more because of the boi-racer stats, think of the uproar there would be. We motorcyclists are no different.

Been trying to think how i feel about all this and finding a way to put it into words. The above does just that. I think this is it for me too. Thanks for that.

[MSTRS:Me]

And remember the compulsory use of helmets is another one of those laws forced upon us by the "nanny state" which the likes of BRONZ tried to oppose.

I wouldn't exactly say motorcyclists have tried to make motorcycling safer.

I'm not sure that anyone could describe Norm Kirk's govt of being the Nanny State type. They did bring in the helmet law, and seatbelt use in cars too. Nearly 40 years down the track and how many still don't/won't do up their seatbelt? Very rare is the time when a rider doesn't have a helmet on (well, on the road, at least).
And if motorcyclists haven't done a thing to make it safer, why is it that we have courses and a range of gear that didn't exist 40 years ago? Because, despite the business opportunity, it is really only motorcycle enthusiasts that get into this sort of thing.

[Katman]

Sure there are those who will never or who are slow to learn but that shouldn't condemn us as a group.

I agree - it shouldn't.

However, the general public and the powers that be (i.e. those who can make our lives a misery) don't see it quite the same way.