Insurance premiums

[hmmmnz]

my insurance on the bike is about double the price of my van which is valued the same, and my van is fully insured and the bike is only 3rd party,
my bike is also garaged and the van lives on the street

ncb is the same on both

[yachtie10]

Smith's comment was stupid and trying to compare data is a waste of time.

Both premiums are frontloaded for third party insurance and based on a number of different factors including age, claims history and vehicle type.

The only thing a comparison will prove is that the premiums for lower cost vehicles are higher as a rate % - for example a $5,000 bike will carry most of the premium that a $15,000 does (not a third, as you would expect). This is because the average claim does not really relate to the sum insured.

I think you are missing the point
I am looking for trend information to refute a statement im not comparing directly. (I agree it is not an apples with apples approach) I will do some work with insurance companies to look into this.
By using data from the same people I remove a lot of factors which would skew the data.

[yachtie10]

my insurance on the bike is about double the price of my van which is valued the same, and my van is fully insured and the bike is only 3rd party,
my bike is also garaged and the van lives on the street

ncb is the same on both

Thanks for that input

maybe the spreadsheet will give you some companies to call to check your not overpaying

[Oscar]

I think you are missing the point
I am looking for trend information to refute a statement im not comparing directly. (I agree it is not an apples with apples approach) I will do some work with insurance companies to look into this.
By using data from the same people I remove a lot of factors which would skew the data.

Why don't I just send you the premium rates?

[Bodir]

The problem is that Nick will have data from the likes of Tower and State, who insure motorcycles without knowing what they do and that is reflected in the premium. Motorcycle friendly insurances (I use John Baker) are significantly cheaper, as they allow not only for cc but model, year, power, cc, rider age etc. They use real numbers based on their experience. And they are not broke yet, so they cannot be that far off.

If Nick would have contacted a motorcycle insurance company he would have a different view on what is going on. However, it would not support his view.

[yachtie10]

Why don't I just send you the premium rates?

up to you
if that's what you want that's fine

[Ixion]

Mr oscar is an insurance broker (I think, summit to do with insurance anyway).

He means he can send you representative figures.

I'd suggest the easiest way would be to ask a couple of typical car insurer (say State and AA ) for a quote for a imaginary car worth $8000 (pick something off Trademe). Normal middle of the road car. Use your own actual details for age, experience etc.

Then get similar quotes from Swann , David Baker, Kiwibiker for a bike worth $8000. Typical middle of the road bike. Say a Hornet, Bandit maybe.

That will eliminate a lot of the apples vs apples issues.

[Hanne]

good idea ixion.

With the GN currently insured for all licenced riders, 3rd party at $4 a month, that has the potential to skew figures just SLiGHtly

PS but when asking don't forget to include weight. Good old Nick Smith has assured us that more weight = more dangerous so we better factor that in too

[ckai]

Well, I'll leave my figures out of this I think. My bike insurance IS about 3x more than my car pretty much. Maybe because the bike is a sports machine I'd say. But still I have a '05 Legacy ("high-theft" apparently - crap) and a 08 Daytona.

[FastBikeGear]

my insurance on the bike is about double the price of my van which is valued the same, and my van is fully insured and the bike is only 3rd party,
my bike is also garaged and the van lives on the street

ncb is the same on both

hmmmnz if you got just thrid party (no fire and theft) from AMI I think you will find you insurance will drop to under $30. Of course you may think your bike is going to catch on fire, be burnt in a house fire or stolen and need/want to pay the $560 for this.

[Oscar]

Mr oscar is an insurance broker (I think, summit to do with insurance anyway).

I'm a Commercial Underwriter now, and I can tell you that what Smith is saying is the usual propaganda with a small grain of truth. Dollar for dollar, bikes cost more to insure than cars, but the actual rate is dependent on too many individual factors to generalise.

[Bodir]

PS but when asking don't forget to include weight. Good old Nick Smith has assured us that more weight = more dangerous so we better factor that in too

The weight of the bike has nothing to do with the injury of the rider. Simple school physics should have taught this to Nick and he claims to be an engineer.

Let me explain:

First the exception to the statement. When dropping a bike on your foot while stationary, yes the higher the weight the more damage can be done. But this is not the point when talking about ACC. These are minor injuries compared.

Scenario one: Bike hits object. (front on collision)
Bike travels at the same speed as the rider. The weight of the bike has nothing to do with its speed. 100kph are always 100kph. On impact, the bike is decelerated from this speed due to resistance (friction, crumple zones, etc) or even stopped. The rider however, has yet not hit the same point of impact as he is sitting further back. This results in a speed differential. Biker faster than bike. The biker then leaves his position to "travel" without the bike until he hits something. By this time, the only weight that has an impact on the biker is his own. The weight of the bike has no part in the damage to the biker.

Scenario two: Biker comes of bike.
The same principal is used here. The biker is separated from the bike and his own weight determines the amount of damage he will suffer.

Scenario three: Object hits bike. (side on collision)
The bike is hit by an object. The weight of the bike does not come into the equation as the rider is hit independently of his bike, same as a pedestrian would be. The weight of the object and its speed determines the amount of injury.

Now to answer the question where does bike weight come into this equation:
In scenario one, the heavier the bike, the more damage to the object that was hit. Usually the car, wall etc. Not a case for ACC but insurance.
In scenario two, if the bike by chance is overtaken by the rider and later on crashes into the rider again. In this case the heavier the bike the more damage. Usually this is neglect-able as the amount of damage done by the surrounding objects have already had major impact on the rider prior to his bike hitting him. You need a lot of speed to get ahead of your bike.
In scenario three, if the object is another bike, it will do damage according to its weight, but to the other rider.

As I said this is simple physics and my post is not written in a scientific matter. If need be I can sit down and provide the formulas and theories behind it, but at this stage a rough description should do.

[Juzz976]

I ride a motorcycle so I have insurance - Health, Life, Income protection, Loan protection, House & Contents and Motorcycle.
can't afford car because its over $1,200 a year for $6000 car.
So if something happens to me, injury or death would I get anything from ACC.
I suspect not yet I still pay ACC Levies

[Hanne]

@ Bodir:

Exactly!

Well I really think you should send this to Nick Smith's office with an introduction about being at the meeting on Monday. Ask him for the figures and evidence to support his claim, and provide your very sound reasoning against it :P

[The Pastor]

my insurance us excatly the same, but i have 3rd party?