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Thread: So who is behind it all?

  1. #1
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    So is behind it all?

    Just an open question out there to ask.

    Sorry for adding another thread to an already busy forum but I think it is important when directing energies etc that the true culprits are recognised.

    From lots of reading here and everywhere I have identifed three main culprits:
    National Government (Nick Smith/ John Key)
    ACC board (John Judge)
    ACC motoring pool advisor (Automobile Association)

    Now if I try and work out what their objective is (in either privatising ACC or at least causing public displease at the notion of ACC) then I, personally, come up With the following:

    National Government - dislike the idea of ACC. Are very business group friendly. The privatisation of ACC would please their business contacts and may lead to a significant pool of funds which they can then access to sort out a lot of their financial conundrums (here I mean the ACC reserves which are about $11bn or so - these may become available to the government war chest if the ACC no longer needs them). They are quite happy for the public to not like the idea of ACC as it would make it easier to privatise.

    ACC board John Judge - Now even though this guy obviously has his own mandate (which is pretty hard to work out) I just see him as a middle man. Has nothing to gain from ACC privatisation that I can see. Has been seen to attack Nick Smith in the press but doesn't seem to be on the side of motorbikers either.
    Regardless of that though he does just come over as a puppet. I have seen this type of executive management before - people below him have the details and he only has a very high level grasp on the issues/detail. This is why he comes out so badly when challenged on the figures. He doesn't really understand them and is just repeating what he has been advised.

    ACC advisors - Predominantly the Automobile Association as far as I have read - they advise the ACC on the levy setting for the motorvehicle pool.
    Now these guys/ girls are supposed to provide the view of the road using public. I presonally think that they do not particularily like motorbikes, and I personally beleive it is them that put the ploy in place to whack motorbikes with larger increases than cars. I presume that this is because of the far larger backlash they expect from solely car drivers.
    But, when it comes to privitisation of the ACC, I see AA being very interested in this happening. In the UK the AA is a major provider of car insurance. I am assuming that the AA here and the AA in the UK are associated so if the ACC is scrapped/ privatised or reduced then the AA would be well placed to profit from the situation (well known brand and can easily leverage of overseas operations to provide private insurance).

    I must point out though that these are just the thoughts of one person. Even as I am typing this I feel like a carzy conspiracy theorist.

    I just think it is very important that efforts/ protests are directed accurately to get to the cause of the problem. It's like the art of war book. Know your enemy etc..

    Everyone is gunning for Nick Smith (who I reckon will have a nervous breakdown before this all ends and be replaced with another generic minister who will be instructed to do the exact same thing) and John Judge (who I am pretty sure has a hand up his backside which operates his mouth). For me I am a bit mistrusting of the AA in all this. Why should a group who would benefit from the dissapearance of a scheme be an advisor to that same scheme?

    Feel free to correct me or give your own slant on this - have I missed any significant players in this whole sneaky dirty scenario we all find ourselves in?

    But for me the AA is behind the silly bike increases and the government is behind the larger issue of the ACC being privatised.
    Last edited by Virago; 3rd December 2009 at 16:15.

  2. #2
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    While im no fan of the AA (was a member but not any more)
    Dont see how they can overly influence anyone with there own intelligence
    Nick smith and John Key are the ones to make the final decision and it will be on there heads

    BTW AA do insurance at the moment
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    There is a insuranance advocancy group that is pushing the goverment to sell them the ACC business. It's them that are the real villans here. There probably connections back to the BRT here as well but this is just a threoy.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by wild_weston View Post
    Just an open question out there to ask.

    Sorry for adding another thread to an already busy forum but I think it is important when directing energies etc that the true culprits are recognised.

    From lots of reading here and everywhere I have identifed three main culprits:
    National Government (Nick Smith/ John Key)
    ACC board (John Judge)
    ACC motoring pool advisor (Automobile Association)

    .

    you can add a few of the many bussiness lobby groups to your list as well..came across some proposals last year and they looked very much like what was first presented by acc
    Hater of haters since 2012

  5. #5
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    Cool

    I can see strings being pulled from Oz...

    May the bridges I burn light the way.

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  6. #6
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    Pretty interesting theory, though I think it unlikely that any one insurance company would be responsible.

    I have already made some inquiries in respect to the wider insurance industry role in this. Hope to hear something in the next week or two.
    Political correctness: a doctrine which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd from the clean end.

  7. #7
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    ACC is a signatory to the National Road Safety Committee memorandum of understanding - which is advised by and reports to the European Commission and World Bank, which funds it's transport safety research on us.

    The secrecy clause in the MOU means ACC cannot consult about and has to do what it's told by NRSC, and is bound by the secrecy agreement not to tell us what that is - only OIAs outpower that.

    I spent several days recently reading the NRSC advisors meeting minutes (10,000 pages) under an OIA they fought 6 mths to stop being honored - after ombudsmen etc we finally got in.
    What I picked up about MCs is this

    1) the targets set for toll and injury reductions require reducing mc injuries a la reducing mc use.
    2) Various road safety chunks are allocated to each Govt Dept with a CEO on the NRSC
    3) ACCs 2 special projects starting this year are safer vehicle tech and mc's

    The World bank advisors take money from industry for their global road safety psartnerrship advice group - the one that deals with the NZ case study.. particularly from several auto manufacturers
    One policy advice is for Govts to fund tv ads promoting safe car tech... hmm.
    One of their policy advice was for our Govt to get a report on promoting low alcohol beer for road safety... hmmm.

    Adding all this up plus the knowledge I have from talking to ACC and NZTA staff who hold a genuine belief mcs are coffins on wheels (likely due to GRSP mentors indoctrinating them) I believe they believe the way to do claims management is to force you into other transport modes.

    Most of the civil servants aren't rocket scientists nor have cause to suspect stats fired at 'em. Told MCs have 16x the risk (equals drunk risk) they have likely trusted this "fact" among a whole raft of propaganda.
    The world bank controller of NZ road safety is an award winning propagandist - noone can write 400 page documents that repeat BS in 500 different ways better than he can - NOONE. Civil servant must reads!

    There are only about 3 key persons pulling the strings on road safety in NZ since 1995 - but the problem is that they are inbred megalomaniacs with absolute faith in the nonsenses they dream up. And unfortunately are also very credible and impressive despite their qualifications not being gold plated (BEcs circa 1960's). They have friends in high places and are imo as a psych nurse narcissists. We luckily stopped one getting Wellingtonian of the year with a letter campaign to the dom post.

  8. #8
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by wild_weston View Post
    Just an open question out there to ask.

    .............................
    Good post. I have considered the same, but can't really te past the ill-advised poorly thought out stage.

    I can't see the AA having such an influence however there is no other advisory body who could have any so-called expertise.

    Negative advice to irradicate motorcycles and over congest the roads with cars must be coming from somewhere.

    Say they restructucve everything and discover that the overload on the ACC type system is a fraction of what they have been trumpeting, will the ACC levies reduce to a more reasonable level? I don't think so.

    IMO - If this all goes through, Motorcycling in NZ will be screwed forever.

  10. #10
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    Who's behind it all?

    Well there are a number of conspirators and yes! make no mistake! There IS a conspiracy.

    On my way to Welly for the protest I had a very interesting and eye opening convo with the cop who was riding with us (yes with us! he is a biker who happens to be a cop).

    He is an older guy, has been around and has been privy to some pretty top level-behind-closed-doors stuff.

    When I said to him that it feels like there is some master plan to get rid of motorbikes he said "yep there is and LAND TRANSPORT are behind it. Its their aim to have ZERO motorbikes on NZ roads by 2050".

    Apparently their original plan wanted bikes gone by 2030 but they grudgingly conceded that might be a bit difficult. This cop has been in meetings and seen big posters on the walls with a picture of a bike inside a circle and yes you guessed it...a big slash across the circle...

    We have got one mother of a fight on our hands people!
    Its no joke to say that whats happening now is just the beginning.
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  11. #11
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    So who is behind it all?
    the banks and bankers, the big over seas corps... the control what happens on this planet whether you like it or not... and it s all for profit so they can get richer..

    Quote Originally Posted by buellbabe View Post

    On my way to Welly for the protest I had a very interesting and eye opening convo with the cop
    tis ok I know at least four biker cops

    Quote Originally Posted by buellbabe View Post
    We have got one mother of a fight on our hands people!
    Its no joke to say that whats happening now is just the beginning.
    Hense why I am wanting to start MANZ Motorcycle Assoication New Zealand. It will be a motorcycle version of AA

    there is even ideas for a polictical party
    http://www.bikersagainstacc.org.nz/docs/mpp.pdf

    Next year was thinking of keeping my own record of both car and bike crashes... but that would be difficult without the help of the MoT

  12. #12
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by candor View Post
    1) the targets set for toll and injury reductions require reducing mc injuries a la reducing mc use.
    2) Various road safety chunks are allocated to each Govt Dept with a CEO on the NRSC
    3) ACCs 2 special projects starting this year are safer vehicle tech and mc's



    Adding all this up plus the knowledge I have from talking to ACC and NZTA staff who hold a genuine belief mcs are coffins on wheels (likely due to GRSP mentors indoctrinating them) I believe they believe the way to do claims management is to force you into other transport modes.

    This is exactly what I suspected

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by candor View Post

    There are only about 3 key persons pulling the strings on road safety in NZ since 1995 - but the problem is that they are inbred megalomaniacs with absolute faith in the nonsenses they dream up. And unfortunately are also very credible and impressive despite their qualifications not being gold plated (BEcs circa 1960's). They have friends in high places and are imo as a psych nurse narcissists. We luckily stopped one getting Wellingtonian of the year with a letter campaign to the dom post.
    So who are these people?

  15. #15
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