Quads, and minimum age issue, serious discussion

[FROSTY:Me]

I was keen to buy my son a petrol powered quad - he has an electric one at the moment (he is only 2). It originally ran on 6V but goes much better on 14.4V from my battery drill.

I am now unsure about upgrading it due to the numbers of accidents.

However, I would like to know more detail about the nature of the crashes.

The most recent one occurred on a slope and it rolled ?

So, what is the risk involved with a child riding an appropriately governed quad on the flat ? No more or less than a two wheeler perhaps ?

Mate i will unquestionably and unreservedly reccomend an LT50 to ya.
Theyve been around mechanically unchanged since adam was a cowboy.
I would suggest though a couple of things.
1) make sure the tether cord is on the back and buy a 3.0m lenth of clothes line rope.
Then you can run along behuind and pull the cord if he gets over confident.
2) pull the rear axle out and fit a new set of bearings.
6905-2nse -that way you know itll take your weight no worries Initially thats how i got my guys ridingme on the back and them working the throttle
3) make sure the governer screw is on the handlebar and screw it in so the quad only gets half throttle.
4)Fit foot boards over,under or arount the pegs and make sure he always wears at least gumboots whilst riding. The only real injury to any kids Ive sold quads to has been them driving over their own leg and burning themselves on the tyre.
5)Dont ever leave him out of your reach-ie the 3.0m kill rope. You will be amazed how fast things go pear shaped

[neels]

But digress....this was about specifically quad's and restrictions

A digression yes, but kind of puts in into perspective though, talking about stopping quads from killing kids until they are old enough to kill themselves.

I suspect there are very few motorcycle deaths as they are seen as dangerous and require a degree of skill to operate, whereas quads appear safe as all the kids need to do is sit on them and press the go button. The problem is when it goes wrong it can go badly wrong.

Its probably another case where education is required rather than legislation

[davereid]

Parents cant make these decisions, we need laws.

We should immediately ban, and / or 15 year age restrict :

Trees
Smoking in any home with any occupant under the age
Swimming holes and pools
Trampolines
Driveways if a child can be behind a car
Bunk beds
Bikes
Rafting
Canoes/kayaks/water skis
Contact sports
Non contact sports with dangerous balls - golf, cricket etc
Quads and powered vehicles of any kind.
Under 15s as passengers on motorcycles.

Overtime we should tackle the next most dangerous things for all age groups
Cycling
Walking in the city,
Motorcycles
Snowboarding/skiing/adventure sports
Contact sports
Tramping
Hunting
Firearms

[White trash]

My kids have an LT50. Love it to bits. So do I.

My 18 month old boy has a PW50 as well and has totaly lost interest in the quad now, I doubt he'll ever ride it again which will keep his sisters happy.

Frankly, this accident involving the little girl was a tragedy, and although her poor parents are killing themselves over it (i'm sure), they were neither negligent or inattentive. It's just sad.

I say leave it to the parents discretion. It's their call.

[rideon]

Quads (fullsize) are NOT toys & are not designed for kids under 16 to ride. It says that on the warning labels for very good reason. First issue is that quads do not have differential drives and as a result of that, active riding is required to get it around a corner - that is the use of your body weight. Children are just not heavy enough & therefore not stong enough to counter the lack of weight to turn the bike when they want to or need to. Secondly the thumb throttle takes some dexterity to use & when kids get a fright or panic, they freeze up & automatically the throttle is locked on, full noise, with the child on board petrified to let their grip off the handle bar. These quads are also far heavier that any 2 wheeler & once rolled I doubt any young child would ever get one off them. 300+ kgs VS 50 kgs - quad will win every time, sadly. Some sobering stats Re quads on NZ farms:
an accident EVERY 20 mins of EVERY day requiring first aid
an Accident EVERY 8 hrs of EVERY day needing ACC $$ of $2000+ to fix
a fatality every 3 weeks
Again - they are NOT toys & NOT for kids , get them a 2 wheeler or a kids sized one .
I teach Agriculture which includes the safe use of ATV's, have ridden quads for 20+ years, & it always saddens me when kids especially are hurt & killed on these. Legislation is not the answer but education on the dangers of these is.

[James Deuce]

I believe I read that farmers are against any age restrictions on them.

Farmers are against anything that limits their access to child labour or mandates compulsory safety equipment, either roll cages for tractors or helmets for open topped vehicles with no roll over structure or a PTW.

Legislation is the answer. Farmers have proven themselves over and over again as incapable of being educated, usually with some feeble excuse about how having to take a helmet on and off would affect their productivity.

As for supervising their children around heavy equipment or equipment that is clearly unsuitable for a child to operate they stray well into territory that would have have urban based authorities removing children from families.

[mctshirt]

[*]Riding a quad is a necessary evil. Country bumpkins are normally familiar with this type of machinery – they use it in their day-to-day lives and it’s a necessary part of contributing to the family chores. If you live on a large block of land, it’s simply not practical to walk some places. I went to a rural primary school and all of my classmates could either ride a bike or drive.

That's why God invented the Ag motorcycle.

Quads are killers whether ridden by adults or children. Quads are cost efficient. They are not a necessity because there are alternatives.

Short answer if it goes pear shaped on a bike the rider tends to be thrown clear or can lift the bike off. When it goes pear shaped on a quad there's no where to go and no-ones lifting a quad off themselves.

Adults and children need to treat them with the respect they deserve and not use them in ways they're not designed to do:
A quad is not a tractor.
A quad is not a 4WD utility.
A quad is not a go anywhere motorbike.
A quad is not a dune buggy.

Ridden sensibly quads are a useful tool but go outside a quads design limitations and they tend to kill rather than injure.

If these kids have any similarities between their upbringing and what I had, the quad will be used as the favourite toy. They will get up to all sorts of mischief, be it racing all over their land, doing donuts, going up and down steep banks, and jumping it off things. The hardest bit to control is that they will do this on their way to the paddock when they need to do chores

It would appear parental responsibility and rider education are sadly lacking - legislation won't help if you're an irresponsible simpleton. We learnt fairly quickly through the use of some fairly unsubtle language and direction (walk till you learn) that dicking around on the farm bikes wouldn't be tolerated.

[pritch]

Statistics and news stories seem somewhat remote. The teenaged son of a woman I work with rolled a quad bike while on a trail ride last weekend and was helicoptered to hospital with a dislocated hip. That didn't make the papers.

[TimeOut]

That's why God invented the Ag motorcycle.

Quads are killers whether ridden by adults or children. Quads are cost efficient. They are not a necessity because there are alternatives.

Short answer if it goes pear shaped on a bike the rider tends to be thrown clear or can lift the bike off. When it goes pear shaped on a quad there's no where to go and no-ones lifting a quad off themselves.

Ridden sensibly quads are a useful tool but go outside a quads design limitations and they tend to kill rather than injure.


It would appear parental responsibility and rider education are sadly lacking - legislation won't help if you're an irresponsible simpleton. We learnt fairly quickly through the use of some fairly unsubtle language and direction (walk till you learn) that dicking around on the farm bikes wouldn't be tolerated.

I agree, if you fall off a two wheeler generally you can get clear of it (done it many times)
If you have an accident on a four wheeler 90% of the time you'll end up under the 4 wheeler that's when the serious injuries happen.

[MotoGirl]

It would appear parental responsibility and rider education are sadly lacking - legislation won't help if you're an irresponsible simpleton. We learnt fairly quickly through the use of some fairly unsubtle language and direction (walk till you learn) that dicking around on the farm bikes wouldn't be tolerated.

I understand that supervision and guidelines are the key while the kid is learning, but once the kid is competent and always behaves in front of mommy and daddy, the parents could perceive any "direction" to mean they are preaching to the converted. In their minds, why fix something that ain't broken?

In my experience, the trouble happens when mommy and daddy aren't watching - when they think you are responsible enough to go on without supervision. How do you allow parents to use their discretion if they are being fooled by their own kids?

[FROSTY:Me]

I think Motogirl has hit nail on head really.Theres a not so fine line between wrapping our kids in cotton wool and letting em loose.
MDU talked about it awhile ago but Im gonna twist it a bit
He takes his lad out shooting a rifle at a target. Now an 8 year old with a loaded rifle we know is pretty dangerous. But by controlling the situation firmly its not a concern Now I think its safe to say if said 8 year old took the rifle and shot it without dad around there would be hell to pay.
I feel a quad or I must say a bike needs to be treated with the same respect and that respect can only come from the parents.
Useing Deano as an example (sorry mate) I d hate to think he would plonk his 2 year old on an LT50 and leave him to it.

[BM-GS]

It's got to be up to the parents, and they have to be able to make an informed choice. We have an LT50 quad for #2 son (4.5 yrs old) and he's happy on that,though is casting envious looks at big bro's 2-wheeler, which we've said he can have a go on as soon as he can touch the ground while sitting on it. I doubt he'll ditch the quad straightaway as I don't think he'll be ready to ride it properly for a year - he just doesn't seem ready, and his attention-span makes your average goldfish look like a philosopher.

The LT50 weighs about 50kg and the replaement model with suspension & gubbins weighs a load more than that. He's only 20kg and we've already seen that quads and hills don't mix. If he's out, he's got us or another responsible adult) within 30 seconds of him, and he'll be on a kid-quad-friendly track, probably at mini-mx or the Sandpit. Mini-mx change the track for the little quads, so there's very little chance of rolling it. However, accidents do happen and kids can freeze, as described in an earlier post in here. However, there are lots of kid-savvy adults around the track.

Not that kids are the only ones who get into trouble. Adults crash quads too - and bikes and cars. The diference is that adults are supposed to be able to decide what's safe, or at least acceptably so, but nobody can foresee everything. Every parent knows that kids get into mischief, it's kind of expected. Nothing to do with age, weight or anything, sometimes just opportunity, or just wrong place/wrong time.

Gotta go now, taking the kids out for a cycle. Probably to a BMX park which should be coated in rubber so they don't fall & hurt themselves... Mitigating against the fact it may not be by taking helmets, mx gloves and band-aids. Just hope the other kids there are wearing bubble-wrap, in case they crash into us.

[StoneY]

Great summary Frosty, and your right Motogirl has an excellent take on it

I guess when I started the thread, asking 'Ban?' was a result of the past 10 years of Nana state living (and I am a Red supporter, but never mind that I dont agree with full on cotton wool)

Yep, with supervision and education, I am sure quads can be great fun for kids
But with the fatalaities and serious injury rate, surely there must be some way to TRY find a solution? If not via legislation, then how?

Kids will behave in dads view and turn into a madman once left alone.... its also natural for them to push boundaries, test limits and beilieve in their indestructability, so kids and quads IMO = almost agaranteed disaster unless Frosty or someone like him happens to be the teacher/supervisor/parent

I guess, its all the parents fault to some extent, with some exceptions like this recent one where the care WAS taken and still a disaster occured(poor buggers)

[Grasshopperus]

i understand what you are on to, but this whole accident has been missrepresented majorly, she was on a kids quad, being watched by her father, i am not sure what else you can do,

How about don't put it on a relatively heavy, relatively powerful vehicle as a form of entertainment in the first place.

Seriously, why the hell do you 'tards think that putting kids in control of motor vehicles is a good idea?

Do you do it because your little darling likes it or you because you don't want the kid feeling left out that he doesn't have a bike just like yours? FFS, you're an adult, they're a child, you make the decisions. THERE IS NO REASON FOR KIDS TO DRIVE MOTOR VEHICLES.

If you own a farm and it was running OK before you had kids then you don't need to put your 5-y.o on a bike, that's you being cheap or lazy. If you live in a city/town and not a farm then the only reason you've bought them a bike is because you're spoiling them and you're weak-willed; you can't say no.

How about a push-bike, it lets them drive around, on wheels (yay for you), and it gets them building up their muscles and get some fitness. Fitness and exercise, you know, that thing that kids in NZ don't get enough of.

Stop accessorizing your kids, you people make me sick.

[PrincessBandit]

How about don't put it on a relatively heavy, relatively powerful vehicle as a form of entertainment in the first place.

Seriously, why the hell do you 'tards think that putting kids in control of motor vehicles is a good idea?

Do you do it because your little darling likes it or you because you don't want the kid feeling left out that he doesn't have a bike just like yours? FFS, you're an adult, they're a child, you make the decisions. THERE IS NO REASON FOR KIDS TO DRIVE MOTOR VEHICLES.

If you own a farm and it was running OK before you had kids then you don't need to put your 5-y.o on a bike, that's you being cheap or lazy. If you live in a city/town and not a farm then the only reason you've bought them a bike is because you're spoiling them and you're weak-willed; you can't say no.

How about a push-bike, it lets them drive around, on wheels (yay for you), and it gets them building up their muscles and get some fitness. Fitness and exercise, you know, that thing that kids in NZ don't get enough of.

Stop accessorizing your kids, you people make me sick.

Those words are a little harsh, but I agree in principle with what you are saying. No one ever sets out to injure their kids (unless you are a child beater) yet everyday they are exposed to situations where more often than not it's just good luck that they don't hurt themselves seriously.

I've heard so many parents crow about how their little Johnny is only 3 but knows how to turn the keys in the family cars ignition, and other such crap. Hell, even monkeys could do that if they watch you enough!

Parents have a huge responsibility in ensuring their kids (and other peoples kids) are kept safe, yet unthinkingly encourage the very things which can easily turn to custard. Boundaries, limits, restrictions - these all seem to be dirty words to some. Yet there's a time and place for all of these things.