ESE's works engine tuner

[Yow Ling]

Same 24mm carb.........Cheating....Maybe.....Maybe Not........so what do the legals think?.......cheat..or.......ok

I would go with legal, tricky but legal. I wonder if there will be a "Cyclone " effect (or a dyson bagless vacume effect) where the fuel may drop out of suspension with the air as it turns to go down the black hole. Of course if it works we will all fit it , and down here where the ESE brand isnt so well known, we will claim it as our own !!

mmm a good backfire into 2 litres of fuelair could be spectacular,

[bucketracer]

I would go with legal, tricky but legal. I wonder if there will be a "Cyclone " effect (or a dyson bagless vacume effect) where the fuel may drop out of suspension with the air as it turns to go down the black hole. Of course if it works we will all fit it , and down here where the ESE brand isnt so well known, we will claim it as our own !!

mmm a good backfire into 2 litres of fuelair could be spectacular,

They have to get it to work first and I won't be standing any were near it.

When TeeZee tries to start it up, I will be heading for the hills, no doubt followed by the rest of the workshop ...................

[Sketchy_Racer]

To Quote MNZ rules:

"F4 2 stroke engines over 104cc are restricted to carburation equivalent to a single 24mm
carburettor"

If it is drawing through a 24mm carburetor, then that is all that matters is makes no mention to the "intake port volume" which is essentially what a plenum chamber like that is. I think it is an excellent idea and if would work even better if you had a better shaped plenum chamber than the casting of the GP125 motor.

[SS90]

Same 24mm carb.........Cheating....Maybe.....Maybe Not........so what do the legals think?.......cheat..or.......ok

I can't see that as cheating.....anyone else?
I am very interested in the real measurable results though....what about mixture strength at different RPM's?, with previous discussions we have had over intake volumes etc, I foresee some strange carburation situations.

Time will certainly tell however, and I recon it would be a worthwhile experiment (if not perhaps a little frustrating!)

[TZ350]

I foresee some strange carburation situations.

Time will certainly tell however, and I recon it would be a worthwhile experiment (if not perhaps a little frustrating!)

Will it work?..Who knows, I have some doubts too, but its an adventure, and it could be good, lets see what happens

.

[gav]

OK, some one has to play Devils Advocate ....
If the rule says this
To Quote MNZ rules:

"F4 2 stroke engines over 104cc are restricted to carburation equivalent to a single 24mm
carburettor"

And now modified it draws more air than before, then it is no longer equivallent to the single 24mm carb is it? Just a thought .... ???

[Yow Ling]

OK, some one has to play Devils Advocate ....
If the rule says this
To Quote MNZ rules:

"F4 2 stroke engines over 104cc are restricted to carburation equivalent to a single 24mm
carburettor"

And now modified it draws more air than before, then it is no longer equivallent to the single 24mm carb is it? Just a thought .... ???

Ok mr devil, thats just silly, the thing is still sucking through a 24mm hole, next you will say racing on cold days is illegal for 125 aircooleds because they get more air into the engine when cold.

The rule seems to be based on the area of the intake , not the amount of airflow



OK maybe the world is pushing the air through the 24mm hole but its still a 24mm hole (or its equivelent)

[Bert]

I've been thinking about this for a while now. but still came to the same conclusion. as follows:

To Quote MNZ rules:

"F4 2 stroke engines over 104cc are restricted to carburation equivalent to a single 24mm
carburettor "

My original understanding is that 24mm restriction (when they first introduced 125s) was to level the playing field between 100cc and 125cc 2 stroke engines.

The restriction does not define either: the engineered shape, nor restricts the efficiency of how the equivalent 24mm single carburettor is engineered. (Otherwise the rules would clearly have to state the homologated carburettors; fit for the intended rule purpose).
So with this in mind; as long as there is some form of 24mm restriction within the intake structure (within the carburetted section) then how it is engineered or applied is not really a contentious issue. fuel injection will open up the same can of worms in the future...

my two cents on the topic.

[F5 Dave]

With restrictor plates in some silly car classes the go was to make sure it leaked like buggery & just jet rich thus getting more than an x mm2 area. Of course that is cheating & on a 2 stroke likely to cause it to seize anyway esp on closed throttle.

Mike is just winding you up, totally legal I would think. On a constant speed engine this just might be able to work.

Personally I don't think you have a chance of making a racing engine, but am prepared to be proved wrong. Plenty of people have run rotary disc engines with super long radiator hose with a carb on the end & seemed to go ok.

[SS90]

With restrictor plates in some silly car classes the go was to make sure it leaked like buggery & just jet rich thus getting more than an x mm2 area. Of course that is cheating & on a 2 stroke likely to cause it to seize anyway esp on closed throttle.

Mike is just winding you up, totally legal I would think. On a constant speed engine this just might be able to work.

Personally I don't think you have a chance of making a racing engine, but am prepared to be proved wrong. Plenty of people have run rotary disc engines with super long radiator hose with a carb on the end & seemed to go ok.

I have done the same myself (super long radiator hose for inlet manifold) and everything worked "as it should", with no adverse effects, which is actually what lead to my studies (and experiments) on inlet manifold lengths.

I am not 100% certain that it will work, but I really believe that Teezee should perceiver with the concept, just because books etc don't suggest that it won't work doesn't mean it won't.

The pictures he posted of the cases show just how easy it will be to effect the design he want's (not that much work really) as it is "half done" already

Will it work?

Only Pop's Yoshimura knows, but I suspect we all will if Teezee can get the system working.

Do you have a day Job Teezee?

[F5 Dave]

Popet Yoshimura would know shit about real engines, only Cams & valves & such

Yes he does have a day job, but his boss knocked himself silly in the TRRS so is easily convinced that TZ sitting at the PC is bonafida 'work'

[TZ350]

.

Havn't been able to make any sense of it all yet, we can easily find the resonant frquency of all sorts of pipes drums etc around the work shop and even of the test speaker but not the GP's chamber???????????

Pic-01 Thomas making up a 0.5W amp from JayCar
Pic-02 Amp, Speaker, and short test pieces.
Pic-03 The GP setup for test.
Pic-04 Alexi doing some real work............
.

[jasonu]

If it wins then clearly it is a cheater...

[koba]

With restrictor plates in some silly car classes the go was to make sure it leaked like buggery & just jet rich thus getting more than an x mm2 area. Of course that is cheating & on a 2 stroke likely to cause it to seize anyway esp on closed throttle.

Mike is just winding you up, totally legal I would think. On a constant speed engine this just might be able to work.

Personally I don't think you have a chance of making a racing engine, but am prepared to be proved wrong. Plenty of people have run rotary disc engines with super long radiator hose with a carb on the end & seemed to go ok.

http://worldrally.motorsportforum.co...d.php?t=121013

If any bastard tries that on a bucket...

[Buckets4Me]

If it wins then clearly it is a cheater...

well then I will go fit the rs engine back into my bike and be all legal then

(I couldn't ride half as well as the top guys so it cant be cheating to use a race engine now can it)