Average speeds dropping, yet road toll increasing

**James Deuce** · 5th January 2010, 18:56

My Dad used to nick my bike on our carless day (Tuesday) and I had to walk my paper run. Sucked.

**Monkeynz** · 5th January 2010, 19:19

Originally Posted by george formby

I've been to Amsterdam too.

MMMMMMM Amsterdam, now there's a place to behold. Coffee anyone?

**MSTRS:Me** · 5th January 2010, 19:23

Originally Posted by Kickaha

They were introduced in 1979 but didn't last very long, they were gone by the time I got my licence a year or two later

http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/media/photo/carless-days

Carless days for motor vehicles were introduced on 30 July 1979 to combat the second oil shock. They did little to reduce petrol consumption and were scrapped in May 1980.

I did use the word 'too'...

**Winston001** · 5th January 2010, 19:53

Originally Posted by ManDownUnder

Doesn't the combination of speeding tickets reducing and the road toll climbing also suggest the possibility that speeding motorists are getting better at avoiding detection?

It'd reduce the speeding tickets issued and the associated revenue streams, but also possibly open the door to speeding more between cops/cameras/revenue collection mechanisms

Good thought Ned. I haven't read the whole thread but I imagine it is the usual "speed is fine, bad drivers are the cause of accidents. etc etc....".

I'm sure it is a combination of both. With regard to speed - and I am a speed junkie - we can't deny the rules of physics. The faster we go the bigger the mess. Trite, boring, but true.

There is no perfect driver or rider. We all make micro-errors. All that needs to happen is for the error to combine with mud on the road or another inattentive motorist and we become a statistic.

**ManDownUnder** · 5th January 2010, 20:26

Originally Posted by Winston001

I'm sure it is a combination of both. With regard to speed - and I am a speed junkie - we can't deny the rules of physics. The faster we go the bigger the mess. Trite, boring, but true.

Yeah - I did a defensive/advanced driving course years ago and the instructor said something like "I don't care how good you and your car is, if you go too fast around a corner you will fall off"

Me thinks he was right

**98tls** · 5th January 2010, 20:38

Originally Posted by ManDownUnder

Yeah - I did a defensive/advanced driving course years ago and the instructor said something like "I don't care how good you and your car is, if you go too fast around a corner you will fall off

Me thinks he was right

Somehow that reminded me of my very early motorcycle days,personal shit aside one of the most talented motorcyclists ive ever known was my old man,still riding at 69 (1250 Bandit).Can still remember him saying "if your not falling off your not going fast enough".All things considered looking back he was correct and through the offs i learnt a few things,surviving those offs however is all down to lady luck.Anyway carry on........(quietly shuffles off to the corner).

**scumdog** · 5th January 2010, 20:51

Originally Posted by PeeJay

http://www.transfund.govt.nz/fascina...-roadtoll.html

interesting factoids

1985... 100kph

And boy, didn't they bombard us with the "Yes, we're raising the speed limit but we're also going to strictly enforce it and woe betide anybody exceeding it"

Of course initially everybody thought "fair enough"

But pretty soon frogot that warning and screamed everytime a speeding ticket was handed to them.

**Katman** · 5th January 2010, 21:00

Originally Posted by 98tls

.All things considered looking back he was correct and through the offs i learnt a few things

Sadly, far too many don't.

(And many don't get the chance to).

**98tls** · 5th January 2010, 21:32

Originally Posted by Katman

Sadly, far too many don't.

(And many don't get the chance to).

Yes agreed its sad indeed.Taken back to basics this pastime we all enjoy so much is rather precarious at best,Mrs Luck has featured many times in my life on 2 wheels as she did for one of my family members years back though not smiling on that occasion.The road toll has nothing to do with average speeds but far more to do with stupidity and this past holiday break ive seen more of it than in years past though thankfully they got away with it.

**FJRider** · 5th January 2010, 22:10

Originally Posted by 98tls

The road toll has nothing to do with average speeds but far more to do with stupidity and this past holiday break ive seen more of it than in years past though thankfully they got away with it.

I live within an hour's drive of Queenstown. One of NZ's main "holiday towns". About 80% of the traffic is to or from there ... holiday mode ... all year round.

And the volume of traffic is increasing ....

**FJRider** · 5th January 2010, 22:19

Originally Posted by Winston001

There is no perfect driver or rider. We all make micro-errors. All that needs to happen is for the error to combine with mud on the road or another inattentive motorist and we become a statistic.

In most cases, it in not one factor that is the cause of an "accident" ... A "micro-error" on our part, combined with factors such as weather, road condition, "other" motorists. Individually ... not an issue. TOGETHER ... another entry in the ACC statistic's ...

**PeeJay** · 6th January 2010, 06:49

Originally Posted by 98tls

Somehow that reminded me of my very early motorcycle days,personal shit aside one of the most talented motorcyclists ive ever known was my old man,still riding at 69 (1250 Bandit).Can still remember him saying "if your not falling off your not going fast enough".All things considered looking back he was correct and through the offs i learnt a few things,surviving those offs however is all down to lady luck.Anyway carry on........(quietly shuffles off to the corner).

That saying has been around quite a while but I dont think it was intended to be taken seriously.
It was a tongue in cheek excuse given by "fast" riders who fell off while coming first.
Unfortunately some people actually believed it.
Confucius say slow down to go fasterer makes more sense and he didnt even have a motorbike.
The most important thing I learnt from falling off is dont.

**peasea** · 6th January 2010, 07:22

Originally Posted by red mermaid

Shall we start with speed, whereby it seems to be accepted on this site, as per the post by Shrub above, that if you are not exceeding the speed limit then it can not be a factor.

This is wrong, speed is driving to the conditions, and from the information given by shrub it was excessive. A person, or persons, in that group was travelling at a speed above there experience, the conditions at the time, and that associated with inattention has been a contributing factor to the crash.

For a proper analysis of crashes, ALL factors have to be considered and recorded, not just the ones you may like to include.

I have skimmed this thread and there appears to be one factor that has been overlooked. (Forgive me if I've missed it.)

The powers that be quote the total number of deaths every year (tragic, yes, whatever the figure) but they never quote the number of deaths per head of motoring population. That's deaths per 100,000 licensed vehicle operators or per 10,000 vehicles. As the general population grows and the kiwi lust for mobility grows with it the number of licensed vehicle operators and road-going vehicles also grows. The 'real' road toll has been dropping for some years and when I say 'real' I mean per 100,000 people and per 10,000 vehicles. You can't expect a population of 200million to have a road toll of three, if you get my drift. I have no problem with trying to keep things to a minimum but with humans being adept at making mistakes a certain number will (unfortunately) come a cropper.

Check this chart out;
http://www.transport.govt.nz/researc...rical-2006.pdf

In 2008 we lost 8.6 people per 100,000 but back in 1973 we lost 27.9!! A lot has changed in a quarter of a century too; cars and bikes have got faster, way faster but things like air bags and crumple zones are doing their bit for car drivers (which, let's face it are the majority of road users) and social reaction to drinking and driving has also changed dramatically.

You can do what you like with statistics but the fact remains; per 100,000 the road toll is down.

**Pixie** · 6th January 2010, 07:32

I note that the lower toll this holiday period was put down to such innovative road safety measures as making using a hand held phone illegal while driving.

So that was a major cause of accidents in holiday periods past,was it? Fucking wankers.

And that is why road safety in NZ only improves when people travel less and cars get better passive safety measures,Your Honour.

**pzkpfw** · 6th January 2010, 07:39

And in todays' news: (If we can believe the AA...)

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/3207...t-toll-says-AA

CRASH STATISTICS

Most common crash causes recorded since 2000 were:

1. Poor observation

2. Failing to give way/stop

3. Other (description used when the crash could not be properly categorised)

4. Poor handling

5. Speed

6. Alcohol

7. Poor judgement

8. Road factors.

(These are "crashes", I didn't see it specifying whether they were death-causing accidents.)