Average speeds dropping, yet road toll increasing

[McJim]

I'm a foreigner and have no problem driving on the correct side of the road...or of riding my bike for that matter.

[Ixion]

Yes yes yes, but you're a foreigner from a country where they drive on the correct side of the road. So it's not going to make any difference to you, is it?

And anyway , you're from Glasgow.

I'm talking about PROPER foreigners, ones from Forn Parts, where they drive all perverted .

[Berries]

I wonder how common that is? It could be a useful argument. Does anyone ahve any "inside knowledge" ?

I did some research on tourist crashes a few years back (bikes and cars). While in some areas they may make up 20% of crash involved drivers/riders there is no data on what percentage of them are on the road in those areas so it is hard to say whether they are a 'real' problem. There are those on the wrong side of the road for Europeans and yanks, but generally they have the same crashes as locals do including crashing on gravel roads, overcooking it in to corners when playing catch up and the standard intersection type crashes. Quite often the fact they are from overseas is pretty much irrelevant to the crash.

I don't think there are going to be enough overseas rider crashes to help with an argument. You have those here for two weeks who are in a hurry, but you also have those who have been working here for nine months. You need to dig deeper and look at their country of origin, time in the country, and then riding experience both here and back home. Big job.

[george formby]

I'm talking about PROPER foreigners, ones from Forn Parts, where they drive all perverted .

I've been to Amsterdam too.

[Ixion]

I did some research on tourist crashes a few years back (bikes and cars). While in some areas they may make up 20% of crash involved drivers/riders there is no data on what percentage of them are on the road in those areas so it is hard to say whether they are a 'real' problem. There are those on the wrong side of the road for Europeans and yanks, but generally they have the same crashes as locals do including crashing on gravel roads, overcooking it in to corners when playing catch up and the standard intersection type crashes. Quite often the fact they are from overseas is pretty much irrelevant to the crash.

I don't think there are going to be enough overseas rider crashes to help with an argument. You have those here for two weeks who are in a hurry, but you also have those who have been working here for nine months. You need to dig deeper and look at their country of origin, time in the country, and then riding experience both here and back home. Big job.

It could probably be targeted on rental bike crashes. Those could be assumed to by and large be short term tourists. The question is tourist crashes not crashes by foreigners (Or Glaswegians) who have come here semi permanently.

[Mikkel]

In Finland it is possible to get a license to ride a moped at 15 and a light motorcycle at 16, but not to drive a car until 18. Starter for 10: which European country has one of the lowest traffic crash rates in the world?

Same deal in DK. You can get a moped at 15 - and you have to go through a rigorous (by NZ standards) education process to get your license. You can get a license for a tractor at the same age. Cars and motorcycles you have to wait until age 18 - and the process of getting the license is much more thorough.

PS: I think the NZ giveway rule is quite simple. May not be the best for traffic flow, but it amazes me how many people don't understand "give way to your right". This applies especially to traffic right turning out of a major carpark exit. They often never get right of way (as they should) from vehicles right turning into the carpark.

It is simple. But it is also completely daft. As for giving way to traffic coming out of carparks - that will confound people from elsewhere since in many places you have to give way when going onto a proper street from carparks, private roads and gravel roads - whether there is a "Give way" sign or not.
The really frustrating bit is when people are stopping to give way when turning left into a multiple carriageway. Or people coming from the other side thinks it is their right to come barging across three lanes of traffic to take the next left.

Actually I seriously wonder how much of it is due to reduced international tourism because of the "global recession". Think how many bikers have been taken out by tourists .

Fewer tourists means fewer campervans and fewer people on the wrong side of the road. A plus not just for bikes but for everyone.

Actually I seriously wonder how much factual basis you have for this hypothesis. How many bikers have actually been taken out by tourists? We can all remember the tragic accident with the overcorrecting campervan (they were driving on the left) that crossed the road and took out two motorcycles, both carrying pillions. A couple of things to ponder:

1) Not all kiwis, motorcyclists included, manage to stay on the right (that would be as opposed to wrong, not left) side of the road all the time.
2) Plenty of campervans driven by kiwis.
3) How many accidents, involving tourists, actually have anything to do with driving on the wrong side of the road?
4) Are overseas driving standards inferior to NZ driving standards?

I did some research on tourist crashes a few years back (bikes and cars). While in some areas they may make up 20% of crash involved drivers/riders there is no data on what percentage of them are on the road in those areas so it is hard to say whether they are a 'real' problem. There are those on the wrong side of the road for Europeans and yanks, but generally they have the same crashes as locals do including crashing on gravel roads, overcooking it in to corners when playing catch up and the standard intersection type crashes. Quite often the fact they are from overseas is pretty much irrelevant to the crash.

I don't think there are going to be enough overseas rider crashes to help with an argument. You have those here for two weeks who are in a hurry, but you also have those who have been working here for nine months. You need to dig deeper and look at their country of origin, time in the country, and then riding experience both here and back home. Big job.

Big job, and most likely pretty pointless too. As long as we see a person killed in traffic pretty much everyday on average and the vast majority of all involved are Kiwis I don't think bashing tourists is a worthwhile exercise.

[James Deuce]

In the same sequence of corners where Flyin died in the Wairarapa, a tourist on the wrong side of the road killed two motorcyclists, approx 5 years ago.

[Berries]

Totally agree. And your point 4 is important, especially when considering the amount of comment on the forum regarding the poor rider/driver training over here.

[ManDownUnder]

Doesn't the combination of speeding tickets reducing and the road toll climbing also suggest the possibility that speeding motorists are getting better at avoiding detection?

It'd reduce the speeding tickets issued and the associated revenue streams, but also possibly open the door to speeding more between cops/cameras/revenue collection mechanisms

[scumdog]

Doesn't the combination of speeding tickets reducing and the road toll climbing also suggest the possibility that speeding motorists are getting better at avoiding detection?

It'd reduce the speeding tickets issued and the associated revenue streams, but also possibly open the door to speeding more between cops/cameras/revenue collection mechanisms

C'mon, stop thinkin', - it ain't the KB way...

[steve_t]

Doesn't the combination of speeding tickets reducing and the road toll climbing also suggest the possibility that speeding motorists are getting better at avoiding detection?

It'd reduce the speeding tickets issued and the associated revenue streams, but also possibly open the door to speeding more between cops/cameras/revenue collection mechanisms

Don't suggest that! Are you trying to get radar detectors banned?

[ManDownUnder]

Don't suggest that! Are you trying to get radar detectors banned?

If they're getting people killed... wouldn't you?

[steve_t]

If they're getting people killed... wouldn't you?

Hmmm... interesting point. My brain's still on holiday. I'll ponder it later

[ManDownUnder]

Hmmm... interesting point. My brain's still on holiday. I'll ponder it later

yeah all good.

I'm just checking it out there personally. I don't have an agenda one way or the other. I'm no fan of paying speeding tickets either and must admit I have managed to avoid them pretty well thus far

[Kickaha]

You have that trouble too? Car-less days were in the early 80s.

They were introduced in 1979 but didn't last very long, they were gone by the time I got my licence a year or two later