3 strikes policy

[Headbanger]

The Maori party is appalled....

[BoristheBiter]

The Maori party is appalled....

like thats a surprise.

[Milts]

What a pile of crap. this is like saying putting someone in jail has no effect so we will just let everyone out, or the boy racer who will loose his car so will just run.

So you are saying that you believe increasing punishments for speeding dramatically (ie to prison sentances) would dramatically reduce the number of runners? Because that's the same logic. And I know that if I were going to go to jail when I saw lights behind me while doing 20ks over the limit I'd think twice about pulling over.

"Public Hanging" Now there was a deterrent that didn't fail! Afraid that by the time this law hits our streets it'll mean very few crims will ever feel the finger on thier collar for the full stint.
Back to basisc, you shoot someone YOU get shot, you steal, you lose a hand and all rights of ordinary citizens form that day onwards For Good,never to be trusted again.No crims on bikes then aye.

Hate to break it to you, but back in the days of public excecution there was a shitload more crime. Yes, I am aware that this has more to do with society back then vs society now, but strict punishment does not always equal less crime. In 'spur of the moment' crimes/crimes of passion, the offender isn't thinking about the senence at all; many premeditated crimes are commited by people who feel they have no choice, or think they're god and won't be caught, or are high on drugs and just aren't thinking full stop.

[wbks]

So you are saying that you believe increasing punishments for speeding dramatically (ie to prison sentances) would dramatically reduce the number of runners? Because that's the same logic. And I know that if I were going to go to jail when I saw lights behind me while doing 20ks over the limit I'd think twice about pulling over.

Because letting them do the same thing over and over again is a much better option...

[BoristheBiter]

So you are saying that you believe increasing punishments for speeding dramatically (ie to prison sentances) would dramatically reduce the number of runners? Because that's the same logic. And I know that if I were going to go to jail when I saw lights behind me while doing 20ks over the limit I'd think twice about pulling over.



Hate to break it to you, but back in the days of public excecution there was a shitload more crime. Yes, I am aware that this has more to do with society back then vs society now, but strict punishment does not always equal less crime. In 'spur of the moment' crimes/crimes of passion, the offender isn't thinking about the senence at all; many premeditated crimes are commited by people who feel they have no choice, or think they're god and won't be caught, or are high on drugs and just aren't thinking full stop.

OK so not all sentences are going to be a detrient for all, at least they won't be on the streets anymore.

[Milts]

Because letting them do the same thing over and over again is a much better option...

I'm not arguing that point at the moment, I'm just pointing out one of the sideeffects this law will have which is often overlooked. You're missing the point of my post.

Don't know if it was just the way i heard it, but the way they put it across on the news, it sounded like if ya have several violent offences on yr record already, the old offences will not be taken into account for this 3rd strike policy !
So violent offenders will be getting realeased for the next ten years and will be allowed to reoffend violently three more times before they aint elligable for parole ! WTF

The only reason for this is that to do so would make the law retrospective; essentially it's making something a crime after the fact, and then charging you for it. I suspect they'd love to make it apply to current criminals, but creating retrospective laws sets a bad precident, which they want to avoid.

[Pascal]

In 'spur of the moment' crimes/crimes of passion, the offender isn't thinking about the senence at all; many premeditated crimes are commited by people who feel they have no choice, or think they're god and won't be caught, or are high on drugs and just aren't thinking full stop.

It would be interesting to see how many crimes are of the passionate / spur of the moment variety and how many are premeditated. I almost typed premedicated, which would have been equally apt methinks

[ukusa]

Told you it would be watered down....and that's not the last bit of 'watering down' we'll see.....

It may be watered down a bit, and I would think that most honest citizens would say the laws aren't harsh enough. BUT it's a hell of a lot better than the bullshit we had.
How many times have we seen week kneed judges sit up on their highchair at sentencing & spout out to the multiple offender that the crime was so heinous, one of the worst cases he has heard, and then goes and gives them 5 years with 2 years off for the guilty plea when the maximum is 15 years!

As for the Maori party oppostion, wtf? What planet are these pricks on. They always seem to be advocates for crims. Look at the way they support the likes of taggers etc saying it's just art. Is rape just sex? Is armed robbery just to way to feed the kids?
They need to stop believing that repeat offenders can be sent back into the community rehabilitated. They are called repeat offenders for a reason. They either don't want to or can't stop.

[Miscreant]

This proposed law is nothing more than harmless window dressing to buy off a minority coalition partner.

at the expense of another. Could be interesting to see where any objections come from.

[Milts]

It may be watered down a bit, and I would think that most honest citizens would say the laws aren't harsh enough. BUT it's a hell of a lot better than the bullshit we had.
How many times have we seen week kneed judges sit up on their highchair at sentencing & spout out to the multiple offender that the crime was so heinous, one of the worst cases he has heard, and then goes and gives them 5 years with 2 years off for the guilty plea when the maximum is 15 years!

As for the Maori party oppostion, wtf? What planet are these pricks on. They always seem to be advocates for crims. Look at the way they support the likes of taggers etc saying it's just art. Is rape just sex? Is armed robbery just to way to feed the kids?
They need to stop believing that repeat offenders can be sent back into the community rehabilitated. They are called repeat offenders for a reason. They either don't want to or can't stop.

I can't say I disagree with the second half of your post, but:
Firstly, the 'most honest citizens' part couldn't be further from the truth. There is a reason labour got in 3 times running.
Also, I've never understood all this hate for judges. They don't set the maximum penalties for crimes. They don't write the legislation, and most of the laws they do create are made at the highest level and make sense. They are some of the best educated people in the country, and have to deal with crime every day. I suspect most of the criticism for them comes from people who have no understanding of their reasoning.
For example, you're criticising them for taking time off for pleading guilty. They have little choice in the matter, it's law. And it's not law because some pinko liberal decided that we should give them time off for being good little boys. Trials are expensive, take a huge amount of court time, and thanks to the jury system (which is seriously flawed at best) there is always a significant chance they will be let off. The net loss to society by letting them out of jail earlier for pleading guilty is less than the net loss of putting them through the system, with the chance they will get off free anyway.

[ukusa]

I can't say I disagree with the second half of your post, but:
I've never understood all this hate for judges. They don't set the maximum penalties for crimes. They don't write the legislation, and most of the laws they do create are made at the highest level and make sense. They are some of the best educated people in the country, and have to deal with crime every day. I suspect most of the criticism for them comes from people who have no understanding of their reasoning.
For example, you're criticising them for taking time off for pleading guilty. They have little choice in the matter, it's law. And it's not law because some pinko liberal decided that we should give them time off for being good little boys. Trials are expensive, take a huge amount of court time, and thanks to the jury system (which is seriously flawed at best) there is always a significant chance they will be let off. The net loss to society by letting them out of jail earlier for pleading guilty is less than the net loss of putting them through the system, with the chance they will get off free anyway.

So why were people like William Bell & Graeme Burton, both people with dozens (if not hundreds) of previous convictions never given maximum sentences for their multiple previous crimes? Both got out to kill. Judges do have a lot to answer for. Sure they don't make the law, but the law makers have set maximum sentences for crimes, it seems to me that the judges never use them.

[BoristheBiter]

I can't say I disagree with the second half of your post, but:
I've never understood all this hate for judges. They don't set the maximum penalties for crimes. They don't write the legislation, and most of the laws they do create are made at the highest level and make sense. They are some of the best educated people in the country, and have to deal with crime every day. I suspect most of the criticism for them comes from people who have no understanding of their reasoning.
For example, you're criticising them for taking time off for pleading guilty. They have little choice in the matter, it's law. And it's not law because some pinko liberal decided that we should give them time off for being good little boys. Trials are expensive, take a huge amount of court time, and thanks to the jury system (which is seriously flawed at best) there is always a significant chance they will be let off. The net loss to society by letting them out of jail earlier for pleading guilty is less than the net loss of putting them through the system, with the chance they will get off free anyway.

don't even get me started on judges.
If you think they are doing a good job then you must be even dumber than i thought.
When you sit there all day hearing the crap sentences they give out you might want to change your above statment.
It gets very depressing when you work hard to arrest offenders to have some judge give them a slap on the hand and tell them don't do it again, or the one who breaks bail and gets bail again and again and again.
they can give out tougher sentences but dont want to set presadince an get it turned down in the appeal court.

[PrincessBandit]

The Maori party is appalled....

Ha, you beat me to it. It struck me too that the only "public" outcry against this policy has come from the Maori party.

Maybe they should do more about it themselves with their own people if they think it's going to count so harshly against them. Can't help but read that with a pretty cynical eye...I'm sure it wouldn't be a concern to them whatsoever if Maori didn't figure so highly in crime stats. If non-Maori were the prime culprits to suffer under this sentencing system I don't think you'd hear a peep from them.

[p.dath]

So you are saying that you believe increasing punishments for speeding dramatically (ie to prison sentances) would dramatically reduce the number of runners? Because that's the same logic. And I know that if I were going to go to jail when I saw lights behind me while doing 20ks over the limit I'd think twice about pulling over.

Over a longer time frame, yes, it would reduce the numebr of runners. I think you would find that less and less people would get themselves to the 2nd strike because of the severe consequences. And some runners might get away, but if you assume on the whole the majority get caught and put away for a long time then they will not have an opportunity to do a runner for a long time.

Not that I condone three strikes for speeding offences ...

Hate to break it to you, but back in the days of public excecution there was a shitload more crime. Yes, I am aware that this has more to do with society back then vs society now, but strict punishment does not always equal less crime. In 'spur of the moment' crimes/crimes of passion, the offender isn't thinking about the senence at all; many premeditated crimes are commited by people who feel they have no choice, or think they're god and won't be caught, or are high on drugs and just aren't thinking full stop.

I think you would be hard pressed to come up with violent crime statistics for the period of time when there was public executions. Hell if I new I could be executed for an activity I would think twice about doing it!

[scumdog]

The Maori party is appalled....

Then they had better start talking a lot of those that voted for them/who they stand for into behaving in a more lawful manner than present.

But maybe they're appaled because it will show how little they have actually done to prevent so many Maori ending up in prison so often..