Update on running a kids grade.

**Trudes** · 2nd February 2010, 11:34

Absolutely Frosty, I agree with you, and like I said, personally I'm fine with it being run at lunchtimes, as long as that's where it stays when we are at Kaitoke on Kart days, AND providing the kids have proper protective riding gear and their bikes have been properly scrutineered with proper nylon etc for protecting the track.

**Skunk** · 2nd February 2010, 11:52

Originally Posted by FROSTY

A top F5/F4 bike at the very outside would cost say $1500 if you just tossed money at it left right n centre. Set of gear. $1000. --That would last a kid 3 years and be able to be passed down to lil bro/sis
Compare that to what the MX guys pay OR --and heres the twist--THE KART guys pay and its got real apeal.

Trouble is the top F4/F5 bikes cost (are worth) way more than $1500. You can get a competitive Bucket for that, but not a top bike.

The main thrust here is the Kart guys will get in a lot of trouble if anything goes pear shaped*, and we have a perfect venue (with time to spare) elsewhere.

*Note: MNZ do not allow under 13 year olds on a race track so that alone sets a benchmark of safety in the eyes on the law (should it come to that) - even without involving MNZ.

**andrew a** · 2nd February 2010, 11:54

Hi all I had better put in my 2 cents wourth. I have 3 wonderfull children. Im OK to let one of them race in the B grade [and win some races sorry Nigel]. He thinks it would be a great sport for dad to get him into. Dad is not so shure. The other 2 love the thought of blasting around the slipway in between races. Im OK for this to continue. I would not like them to partisapate at Kaitoki unless they were able to go in the B grade. I feel the days are long enough with out another event. The slipway is a great place and time to do it. I also take my children out to learn basic skills with out pressure of people watching or bikes braking. That is mostly on grass.
If it was a bike only day it may be different. The effort needed to nylon up the bikes would not apeal to me. We need to be mindfull of the Kart people.
Its a fantastic place to ride as regular as we do. I do not want to risk loosing it.
PS can ride bikes cant spell.

**Kickaha** · 2nd February 2010, 12:47

Originally Posted by Skunk

*Note: MNZ do not allow under 13 year olds on a race track so that alone sets a benchmark of safety in the eyes on the law (should it come to that) - even without involving MNZ.

They do from age 10 (young junior road race), but certain criteria have to be met with the tracks

Rule 15-2-3
Young Junior Road race riders from their 10th birthday until their 13th birthday
shall be allowed to compete in the Young Junior road race class.

15-17-2 Young Junior Road race competitors are required to have competition licences.Applications for these licences will follow the same system to that for junior licences including using the same application form Refer rule 15-2-1.

15-17- 3 Motorcycle technical specifications.

15-17-3-1 Solo motorcycles shall have the following capacities F5 2 stroke engine only (rule 24-2-1 only 8.00 hp maximum). Measured at back wheel.

15-17-3-2 Engines must be derived from a non-competition motorcycles and produce less than 8.00 HP measured at the back wheel. Machines may be impounded and checked at the discretion of the Steward. Motocross, road racing, enduro and go-kart motors and transmission parts are not permitted. All engines must be naturally aspirated.

15-17-3-3 All machines must be fitted with an operational tether kill switch. The tether kill switch must not be fitted in such a way that may be over ridden and must be attached to the rider.

15-17-3-4 Circuits – All racing for this class will be conducted on circuits with a maximum average speed of 40 kph and a maximum speed of up to 60 kph. Circuits will generally be those utilized by Go Karts, closed industrial type car parks. Racing for the class is specifically prohibited from Pukekohe Raceway, Centenial Park, Manfeild, Ruapuna, Levels and Teretonga in their normal configuration. If the above circuits can safely be modified or altered to accommodate the 40kph average and the 60kph maximum speed to the stewards satisfaction then these circuits may be used.

15-17-3-4a When a young junior road race competitor has completed ten events, as recorded in their competition licence book they may apply to the steward to be allowed to race where the maximum speed of 60kph is relaxed and a maximum of 90kph will apply. If the steward deems that this rider requires more time at the lower speed maximum then the rider must stay at that level until the steward is satisfied the rider may progress.

**FROSTY:Me** · 2nd February 2010, 12:56

Dude i agree with you and trudes except to introduce the thought about lighting the germ of an idea that I posted above.

As for not letting under 13 year olds race. Mate as far as I'm concerned MNZ have their heads up their arses on this subject. Why is it unsafe for a 12 year old to race a 50cc bucket yet totally safe to race a 85cc full race spec'd MX bike?
is is because its safer or is it because the offroad guys said--"tough shit we're doing it"?
Why is it "safe" for a child to race a kart?? -they can and DO flip
Why is it that elsewhere in the world a 13 year old has already done 3 seasons full mini racing?

And road racing in NZ is struggling to get numbers--why?

Gear wise a child in Full MX armour and an old set of leathers safety wise at slipway/mt wellington Would offer good protection. I'd be thinking simply due to availability that kids should be able use MX lids and goggles-Peaks removed fromthe lids. Mind you I havent exactly struggled to get lids for my kids.
There are truck loads of old sets of leathers gathering dust in guys wardrobes because the leathers "shrunk"
I know this for fact because my fella ended up with 3 sets of older leathers donated to him. (thank you guys)
it would have a roll on effect. As a kid outgrew the gear they'd pass it on to the next kid.
Folks I beg of you don't let the idea go just because the person pushing it is doing it in the wrong way.

From MY POV---how good would Sam Smith, K14, Sctechy racer be TODAY if they started road racing in some form when they were 10

**F5 Dave** · 2nd February 2010, 13:23

I think the big point is we have volunteers that help organise & run these events, this is not without responsibility and risk if something goes wrong. I fully support this person/persons in not being pressured into a situation that they are not comfortable with (& is beyond the original remit of getting us racing). These are the people (well it's Skunk really) who would shoulder blame as organiser no matter who's idea it was & promises to take responsibility, it will still be him at the end of the day.

I don't think the argument that it would be good for these riders to start earlier has any relevance here. That isn't what this class was designed to do.

And lets not lose this track. Again.

So what have we got? extra stress & risk, less track time, having to run around & organise more marshals at lunchtime etc & then dealing with parents who lose their rag if little Johny isn't getting the fair deal as far as they see it (even after he turns up in totally unsuitable gear/bike & being pressured to let them ride). If there is one lesson of mini mx it's the parents cause huge issues with the organisers. Doesn't sound like any fun to me. Don't want to burn out our Skunky.

**jasonu** · 2nd February 2010, 13:33

Originally Posted by woodyracer

kids are better off jsut having a ride on the practice days, thats how ive seen it done at mt wellington, probualy not the best idea to let them race until they are 13. Just keeps it simple thats all. I rode pocket bikes beofre i turned 13, it was great fun and i got useful skills for the track.

I don't want them there even on practice days. The minimum age rule should be strictly enforced. Waiting to be old enough didn't do Nathaniel Diprose any harm.

**Trudes** · 2nd February 2010, 13:57

Originally Posted by jasonu

I don't want them there even on practice days. The minimum age rule should be strictly enforced. Waiting to be old enough didn't do Nathaniel Diprose any harm.

Exactly. I wanted to drive a car at 12, so my dad taught me to drive a tractor and then a ute on the farm, but I didn't get a drivers licence and drive on the road until I was 15, sat a test and was ALLOWED to. No amount of me or my parents bitching and crying about it would have changed that. Suck it up.

**FROSTY:Me** · 2nd February 2010, 14:27

So you feel then that young riders should go ride MX instead?

**F5 Dave** · 2nd February 2010, 14:42

I feel that it isn't our problem. At what stage did we take on to be responsible for breeding the next world champ? IMO Far too much emphasis is put on trying to "make us all proud" as a sporting nation even if it means grass roots riders are ignored. MNZ are guilty of this. This is the rider's sport.
Of course when my son is old enough to race I'll probably start acting all uppity & someone will need to slap me.

And yeah a start in the dirt is a good start. At what age? Well, leave me out of that argument.

**Trudes** · 2nd February 2010, 14:48

Yes until they're of the age that has been stipulated by "The Rules" whose ever rules you have to abide by. You learn the mad skills and confidence there. So yeah, why not?

**FROSTY:Me** · 2nd February 2010, 15:30

Mon theres a phrase in my buisiness.It goes "feed the funnel". The idea being you need a LOT of kids coming in at the top getting into road racing. Do that and our sport will start to grow again.
More people aware,more people turned onto it. More people doing it. I can't see a down side.
How full are the F5 grids at slipway?

**FROSTY:Me** · 2nd February 2010, 15:39

ACTUALLY FOLKS -- hang on a mo. I just realised i'm doing what i hate others doing to me."someone' has put balls on the line and said ok I'll run bucket meetings. Its his/her show. SORRY
But please if anyone likes the concept then please don't kill it.

**Trudes** · 2nd February 2010, 15:43

Originally Posted by FROSTY

Mon theres a phrase in my buisiness.It goes "feed the funnel". The idea being you need a LOT of kids coming in at the top getting into road racing. Do that and our sport will start to grow again.
More people aware,more people turned onto it. More people doing it. I can't see a down side.
How full are the F5 grids at slipway?

We run an A grade which consists of the seriously fast guys and the others who lap most of the B grade field and we have B grade which are the "and then raced", still competitive and the racing can get quite vicious in there, and at Slipway we also have C grade which consists of new riders and kids who are not old enough to race in B grade. This is why we say develop C grade at Slipway, at present it's just whoever turns up tootling about learning how to ride. This time could be used to teach the kids and anyone else who is learning or doesn't feel competent enough to join in B grade. I should think however, that this is something that needs to be taken up with Bayden as Slipway is his responsibility and C grade was originally track time for his kids, so he'd need to be happy for it to be "race time" and his kids would want to join in in that. The kids need to know how to ride a bike for a start though..... walk before you can run. No point teaching them race lines if they can't change gears or brake without falling off (yes, I know, some adults can't even manage that!

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