F3 regs

[satchriossi]

Hey,

Seeing as the rules allow overbored 400cc four strokes to <460(?)cc - how would someone go about getting <300cc two strokes allowed? Is there someone important who i can moan at to get the rules altered? Either that or get the pro-twins opened up to <300cc production based two strokes - that'd be as good really seeing as they classes run together in the Vic club anyway.

Does anyone know the exact regs for F2? I read that Glen Skachill ran an RS250 Honda GP bike in F2 a couple of years ago. I can't find rules for the class that state exactly what machines are elligible to run.

Chur,

Tom

[oyster]

Hey,

Seeing as the rules allow overbored 400cc four strokes to <460(?)cc - how would someone go about getting <300cc two strokes allowed? Is there someone important who i can moan at to get the rules altered? Either that or get the pro-twins opened up to <300cc production based two strokes - that'd be as good really seeing as they classes run together in the Vic club anyway.

Does anyone know the exact regs for F2? I read that Glen Skachill ran an RS250 Honda GP bike in F2 a couple of years ago. I can't find rules for the class that state exactly what machines are elligible to run.

Chur,

Tom

F2 is an MNZ class abolished over a decade ago but clubs still run it with the obvious benefit of finding
a safe and suitable place for bikes of that spec. Thus there is no MNZ definition, it's up to the clubs to
define it in their supplementary rules. The upside of F! and F2 is it includes more bikes in a class, the
downside it dilutes the sport which some say has too many classes already. If you want to win at club
level, F2 spec your bike, for Nationals 600SP it.

[lostinflyz]

if you dont advertise your bikes a 300, don't win, don't do nats then your 300 is already legal. hahaha.

club racing should be an inclusive enviroment. worst comes to worst its clubmans legal.

[steveyb]

Oyster is right about the F2 class. F1 is the same, a class that was disestablished some years ago, and 250GP went the same way a couple of years ago.
Currently Formula 3 allows for 450cc 4 cyl four strokes and 250cc 2 cyl two strokes based on Production road bikes. Some mods are allowed, but most things must remain original.
I am personally not in favour of allowing 300cc overboring as there are heaps of other, lower cost and easier things that could be done to these bikes before doing that. Such like GP pistons, heads, ECUs, larger carbs etc etc etc.
My own opinion is that it is time now to open the Formula 3 regulations to allow 250GP bikes from Honda up to 2000 and Yamaha 1999 into the class. I am less familiar with the Yamahas but there is nothing on the 2001- Honda RS250 that can be put on the pre-2001 bikes that will make any go faster difference. I think this would provide a real place to race for the few 250 GP bikes that are left in NZ. And there aren't very many any more. Mostly Post-classic age bikes. Maybe a couple of handsful of later model bikes. But there are alot of riders who would like to get bikes if there was a championship in which they could run.

And I really don't think they would walk away with it with the age restriction. The top current F3 bikes are serious racebikes and will give any 250GP bike a good run for its money on NZ circuits which don't really show 250GP bikes at their best.

So, if you want to have the rules for a class changed, you need to write a proposal and submit it to Motorcycling NZ for consideration by the Road Race commission at AGM (in March or May I think). So, no, you can't just "have a moan" you actually need to do some work and string some words together into coherent sentences and present your ideas to the powers that be.

I will be doing this for my idea above, at least I will if I can find the time. No doubt someone will jump down my throat now.....

[k14]

Good idea steve, looking at the times that williams and easton were doing at teretonga and levels an older 250 ridden by an equally good rider would probably be right on their heels. Any way you can get more riders/bikes into the class the better.

Another thing I reckon that should happen is that pro twin bikes are allowed to get F3 points. At the moment they are two seperate classes off the same start. The problem is that during a race, if you are an F3 bike following for instance 2 pro twin bikes, there is no incentive to pass them. I've done it, why risk anything when you have nothing to gain? This does nothing to help the crowd that has come to watch. I think this would make the F3 championshop a lot better and shouldn't make a difference to the pro twin class, its a great class and i think 3 years after it was started now it is starting to show its promise!

[oyster]

Good idea steve, looking at the times that williams and easton were doing at teretonga and levels an older 250 ridden by an equally good rider would probably be right on their heels. Any way you can get more riders/bikes into the class the better.

Another thing I reckon that should happen is that pro twin bikes are allowed to get F3 points. At the moment they are two seperate classes off the same start. The problem is that during a race, if you are an F3 bike following for instance 2 pro twin bikes, there is no incentive to pass them. I've done it, why risk anything when you have nothing to gain? This does nothing to help the crowd that has come to watch. I think this would make the F3 championshop a lot better and shouldn't make a difference to the pro twin class, its a great class and i think 3 years after it was started now it is starting to show its promise!

Pro Twin IS showing great promise, but not in the quanities we really need. Before the class came people were were jumping up and down wanting the replacement for the prod 250 class which famously developed
our great, recent, but now very aging road racers. It still holds that promise and is the ideal stepping
stone (as well as 125GP) for (especially) young people moving from Streetstock up the ladder to 600SP.
What happens when the very, very old frontrunners of F3 retire? There will be nothing left but several clubman riders, where F3 should retire too also. Then give the full championship opportunity to Pro Twin, where they can
race for "line honours" without tripping over the lower order F3 riders with much superior chassis and
power.

[Whitebait]

Tom as long as your not planning on winning national titles on the 300 you'll be sweet.

Were you gonna put in that spare 250cc engine you got off me??

Steve you get my vote as well!

250 gp bikes and modified 250 proddy bikes should be allowed in F3

You can go can buy a brand new 600 and whip a plug lead off but you can't stick some aftermarket goodies in a 250???????? How does that work??

I would be ordering a RS250 tomorrow if I had a class to ride it in!!

There are so many people I have meet through racing a 2-stroke that are so passionate to see, smell and look at 2-strokes maybe we need to be pushing for our own class??

2-stroke unders and 2-stroke overs on one grid!!

The motard boys have shown that they aren't interested in showing up to the winter series so scratch them off the list.

[quickbuck]

The problem is that during a race, if you are an F3 bike following for instance 2 pro twin bikes, there is no incentive to pass them. I've done it, why risk anything when you have nothing to gain? This does nothing to help the crowd that has come to watch.

Put your Red Mist on Kirk, and show him a wheel.....
Then, put on a show for the crowd...... Oh, that's right, we had an incident when a certain person decided to beat all the Pro-Twins as well

[satchriossi]

My 300 cost less to build than what it would cost to buy an NX5 RS250 in decent condition. It weighs a bit more and makes abit less power. Its motor uses modified NSR150 barrels and heads (so not really an overbore) fitted to the NSR250 crank cases so its all mass production based stuff. As its power comes more from increased displacement, rather than a high state of tune, it doesn't cost as much to run as a full on GP bike either - which was always the aim when i was building it.

So in one breath you so say you want to bring GP 250s in and in another breath you oppose allowing big bore kitted 250 production bikes to run on the grounds that its too expensive... Explain yourself.

So, if you want to have the rules for a class changed, you need to write a proposal and submit it to Motorcycling NZ for consideration by the Road Race commission at AGM (in March or May I think).

Thankyou, that's what I needed to know.

So, no, you can't just "have a moan" you actually need to do some work and string some words together into coherent sentences and present your ideas to the powers that be.

I worded it like that to add a little humour. That little sentence REALLY pissed me off. Think about it now, would you have said it to me like that if we'd been face to face? If you carry on with that condescending attitude you'll find plenty of people ARE going to be keen to jump down your throat at the slightest oppurtunity. As I have.

[Billy]

Absolutely the NSR300 kits should be eligible,Unless you bite the bullet and pay somebody to fabricate some expansion chambers too suit them and purchase some RS250 manifolds and 38mm carbs,The most you can hope too see is around 65-68 rwhp.A well set up RGV will produce 72.The Tyga 300 kits are nothing more than 2x NSR150 cylinders,Pistons and rings and unless you modify the cases too suit. The cylinders are a horrendous mismatch.The rules regarding multi cylinder 2 strokes eligibility for F3 have recently been eased a little with the inclusion of open format for carbs and pistons (the latter provided it remains within 250cc limit),However much they are relaxed you dont have a snowballs chance in hell of making a production based 250 competitive with the Ozzy 450,Tigcraft or glen and terrys SVs.Bringing back the 250 gp bikes could be an option but good luck finding one in this country thats for sale

[satchriossi]

Tom as long as your not planning on winning national titles on the 300 you'll be sweet.

Yeah true bro, i'm just worried about upsetting anyone with my cheater bike!

I'm all for letting the two strokes go nuts in F3 - Alan Baird's TZ would look a treat on the F3 grid, its a shame to see him confined to clubmans.

[Whitebait]

If I won big wednesday I would buy a NSR500 and employ someone to be my pit bitch.

There are a few nice 250's tucked away with their crank seals hardening would be much better put to use on the track!!

[satchriossi]

Absolutely the NSR300 kits should be eligible,Unless you bite the bullet and pay somebody to fabricate some expansion chambers too suit them and purchase some RS250 manifolds and 38mm carbs,The most you can hope too see is around 65-68 rwhp.A well set up RGV will produce 72.The Tyga 300 kits are nothing more than 2x NSR150 cylinders,Pistons and rings and unless you modify the cases too suit. The cylinders are a horrendous mismatch.The rules regarding multi cylinder 2 strokes eligibility for F3 have recently been eased a little with the inclusion of open format for carbs and pistons (the latter provided it remains within 250cc limit),However much they are relaxed you dont have a snowballs chance in hell of making a production based 250 competitive with the Ozzy 450,Tigcraft or glen and terrys SVs.Bringing back the 250 gp bikes could be an option but good luck finding one in this country thats for sale

Well said, there's a guy in England who has a fully kitted F3 NSR250 with all the HRC race kit goodies and he's got dyno graphs for that reading 77 horsepower at the wheel. A dear job and its all very well if you have contacts for getting HRC race kit parts for the more obscure bikes but for us mortals the Tyga 300 kits are a much easier route to better performance. I'd hazard a guess that the HRC crank he's got in it wasn't cheap and won't be easy to replace when it reaches its service limit.

[satchriossi]

If I won big wednesday I would buy a NSR500 and employ someone to be my pit bitch.

There are a few nice 250's tucked away with their crank seals hardening would be much better put to use on the track!!

RS cycles in America have a still crated NXA RS250 sat in their warehouse, that's where my lotto win would get invested!

[quickbuck]

If I won big wednesday I would buy a NSR500 and employ someone to be my pit bitch.

There are a few nice 250's tucked away with their crank seals hardening would be much better put to use on the track!!

Okay, make sure your numbers include 1, 2, and 46.... Oh, wait, Big Wednesday doesn't go that high....
But i will swing your spanners Glenn