15% GST

[The Stranger:Me]

My description of bottled water as an "abomination" may conjure up pictures in your mind of someone jumping up and down, ranting and foaming at the mouth, but that's your over-active imagination. I think I'm being quite calm and rational. I am.

It may, I guess. Or it may simply be that you think that I think you may be "jumping up and down, ranting and foaming at the mouth" but that's just your over-active imagination. Dude, go have a drink, I think you're dehydrated and getting delusional - again.

[The Stranger:Me]

People who complain that they never have enough money and yet are willing to spend $2 on bottled water need to examine their priorities.

Is anyone here complaining about insufficient funds whilst drinking $2.00 bottled water?
Perhaps their priorities are health related. If I'm out riding and feel myself becoming dehydrated I will happily spend $3.00 on a bottle of water at the gassy, it has the potential to save my life. Apparently that could save you all a couple of mil.

Oh hey, almost forgot. Due to any under seat storage being taken up with important things like power commanders etc I usually just biff half the bottle too - straight in the trash. Yep the marketing has me completely fucked.

[Pascal]

As for GST exceptions, it sounds lovely. However if the combined legal minds of the Europeans and the British cannot come up with a fool-proof definition for exceptions, there is little chance NZ can do so. The Americans have the same problems with their state sales tax.

Random curiosity here. But why did you stop quoting at the point where I said I think it's a nice idea but unfeasable?

[Clockwork]

Paying everyone a universal benefit would be easier than discounting GST on specific product types ...

Random curiosity here. But why did you stop quoting at the point where I said I think it's a nice idea but unfeasable?

Instead of a universal benifit why not allow everyone to earn the first $1,000 - $10,000 tax free. Does anyone know what the justification was for ending that or what arguments are used to prevent its return?

[The Stranger:Me]

As for GST exceptions, it sounds lovely. However if the combined legal minds of the Europeans and the British cannot come up with a fool-proof definition for exceptions, there is little chance NZ can do so.

Yes, but they don't have MikeL now do they?

[davereid]

Instead of a universal benifit why not allow everyone to earn the first $1,000 - $10,000 tax free. Does anyone know what the justification was for ending that or what arguments are used to prevent its return?

I think the universal benefit was one of Gareth Morgans ideas.

He floated the concept of giving everyone a universal benefit of $10,000 ish a year which you get even if you are working.

The idea was that there would be no dole or sickness benefits. Not bad, as they are below this threshold anyway.

Other benefits like the DPB would be reduced by $10,000 PA.

Gareth showed that it would not be terribly expensive, as managing welfare gobbles up a massive percentage of its budget, and this would reduce that substantially.

The other advantage would be a $10,000 P.A. pay rise for all workers, which virtually overnight puts us on a footing with Australia.

Lots of things throw it off track though.

How do you deal with pensioners ? They are paid out of welfare, but many have a legitimate claim thats its their own money. (Superann was orginally taken out of wages separately, until it was flogged in the 80s.)

What if $10,000 isnt enough ? Can we stay hard, or will we operate a "dole top up office" unravelling the whole thing ?

Will it increase the gap between rich and poor ?

Plus, Gareth may now be the only person on the planet that thinks its warming up. !

[Clockwork]

Thanks for the reply. I'm unfamilier with the term universal benefit. In the UK this is/was called a "Personal Allowance" but I understood that such an allowance used to exist in NZ too and was ended in the 70's or 80's.

As I understand it, tax is deducted from the dole but not for Pensioners ie National Super is paid tax free. (Not yet been in either category) but by continuing to tax the dole but providing a such a personal allownace on "earned" income there could be your incentive to get out to work!

[Oscar]

People who complain that they never have enough money and yet are willing to spend $2 on bottled water need to examine their priorities.

Or booze, lotto, fags, soft drinks...where do you stop?

[MisterD]

The other advantage would be a $10,000 P.A. pay rise for all workers, which virtually overnight puts us on a footing with Australia.

Erm, how exactly do you calculate that? We currently pay (source) 12.5c in the $ on the first $14k of income. So if the first $10k becomes tax free then that's a pay rise of $1250 for every worker.

[davereid]

Erm, how exactly do you calculate that? We currently pay (source) 12.5c in the $ on the first $14k of income. So if the first $10k becomes tax free then that's a pay rise of $1250 for every worker.

Gareth Morgans proposal was to give everyone $10,000. P.A., not to remove tax on the $10,000.

So you would get $10,000 although you would pay tax on it. Depending on your marginal tax rate you would take home more or less of the $10k.

[Clockwork]

Gareth Morgans proposal was to give everyone $10,000. P.A., not to remove tax on the $10,000.

So you would get $10,000 although you would pay tax on it. Depending on your marginal tax rate you would take home more or less of the $10k.

Whooo, that's a whole other ball game! Where's the $10,000 supposed to come from?

[davereid]

Whooo, that's a whole other ball game! Where's the $10,000 supposed to come from?

From a 1.5% tax on capital stock, coupled with the second part of his idea, which was to reduce all income tax to a flat 25%. If you consider the idea that you get $10,000 just for being alive, you would not effectively pay any tax until you reached $40k.

[Clockwork]

*ducks*

Sorry, that one's gone straight over my head. I suspect the fine details of his plan are too many to effectively pass on in an internet forum such as this.

[MikeL]

Is anyone here complaining about insufficient funds whilst drinking $2.00 bottled water?
Perhaps their priorities are health related. If I'm out riding and feel myself becoming dehydrated I will happily spend $3.00 on a bottle of water at the gassy, it has the potential to save my life. Apparently that could save you all a couple of mil.

Oh hey, almost forgot. Due to any under seat storage being taken up with important things like power commanders etc I usually just biff half the bottle too - straight in the trash. Yep the marketing has me completely fucked.

Since we obviously have completely different perspectives on this (and no doubt other matters), we should agree to disagree, and both of us can happily go off riding with a clear conscience, you feeling smug that your half-consumed $3 bottle of bought water now thrown in the rubbish bin is helping to keep the wheels of commerce turning, me with a bottle of Onehunga tap water in my pack rack knowing that I have saved myself $3 and helped the environment in a small but satisfying way. Each to his own.

[p.dath]

I'm so enjoying myself at the moment. But now I have stopped laughing I can respond.

I spoke of the universal benefit more in jest that as a serious alternative.

But as has been mentioned, it has been noticed that social welfare is incredibly expensive to run. Some study found that it would be no more expensive than to just give everyone a benefit. Doesn't matter if you have a job or not, sick or not, etc. Everyone gets it. In return, the majority of benefits we have now would be scraped.
Suddenly we don't need all the people to process applications, review them, investigate them. There is no more benefit fraud. There is nothing to apply for.