ESE's works engine tuner

[TZ350]

I'm not being a "ney sayer" here Teezee, far from it, I am just showing interest in your work, and sure, I am questioning certain aspects (I never said you had fitted a Reed Valve).

I appreciate you writing the last post, and I am familure with what you have written, but I still don't understand how only a 3cm longer inlet tract can balance out the pressure that occurs when the inlet disc closes

You say that the only change you made was to increase the inlet manifold by 35mm, is this 100% correct?, you didn't change anything else?

I have indicated my interest in this project (as have a few others on here), and your description/pictures of your plenum is just getting vague.

Hi SS thanks for the link. I will join and see what they have.

No you didn't say I used a reed valve, you said it wouldn't work without one, clearly it does.

And Yes I expected you would have a reasonable grasp of induction resonance and the difference between what happens at inlet opening as opposed to closing and why.

" is this 100% correct?, you didn't change anything else?"......what are you trying to say.

"your description/pictures of your plenum is just getting vague.".....My design objective and reasoning has been well covered, you now know it works, look at the picture below and short of sending you a set of blue prints, how much more do you need.

Want to know more, copy it and preform your own experiments.........and remember to tell people you saw it working here first.

The Magic Vacuum Cleaner 01 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxiEo8cgopg

[SS90]

So where have you added the extra 35mm of inlet manifold length, is the the trumpet on the disc, or the box section between the inlet manifold rubber and the crankcase?

[TZ350]

So where have you added the extra 35mm of inlet manifold length, is the the trumpet on the disc, or the box section between the inlet manifold rubber and the crankcase?

the trumpet on the disc

[SS90]

I see, but that doesn't add to your inlet manifold length....we have discussed this at length (pun pun), and it is difficult to calculate the actual length of a two stroke inlet manifold as it is a "resonating flask",(because it includes the dynamic volume of the crankcase) as the air/fuel mixture is being heated and cooled at the same time by the surrounding metal, (and I think F5dave mentioned the oil as well) therefore we cannot calculate sonic speed, but, how does adding a bell mouth to the disc increase the inlet manifold length?

Is a plenum not calculated into the equation for inlet manifold length?

I have never seen a formula indicating that.

I'm not simply arguing, I am actually interested!

[SS90]

What? you can't be arsed popping over for a look or something, lazy fucker

Ya miss me already?


I knew it!

Sorry I didn't get to say goodbye last month, I will try to bring you a pair of leather shorts next time.

[TZ350]

.

You are confusing yourself with technoese.

1. The setup you see works.

2. I always tried to differentiate between the motors inlet tract and the carbs tract. maybe I should have called them 1 and 2.

3. Reversion happens at significant changes in diameter/volume, for instance where an inlet runner finishes inside a plenum.

4. A lot of 4-stroke stuff I read on the net treated the inlet runner, plenum and throttle bodies as separate entities in their calculations. These people clearly had a wealth of experience. I posted the links. You can chose to ignore them if you want to.

5. Calculation gets you into the ballpark, after that its test, test ,test........

[SS90]

.

You are confusing yourself with technoese.

No I'm not.

Putting aside the resonant flask portion of an inlet manifold, say, for one part of the equation, you wold measure the volume of the crankcase (at TDC), and you also need to add the inlet pipe length (among other easily calculated factors, cross sectional area of the inlet etc)

Any extra length that you added between the disc and atmosphere will not effect the over all length of the inlet tract.

Longer stroke crank, that would effect the length, (as it effects crankcase volume, as well as the length of the intake pipe) as would a spacer on the carb, but not because that effects crankcase volume, but rather that it simply adds length to the intake pipe length

[TZ350]

Putting aside the resonant flask portion of an inlet manifold, say, for one part of the equation, you wold measure the volume of the crankcase (at TDC), and you also need to add the inlet pipe length (among other easily calculated factors, cross sectional area of the inlet etc)

Any extra length that you added between the disc and atmosphere will not effect the over all length of the inlet tract.

Longer stroke crank, that would effect the length, (as it effects crankcase volume, as well as the length of the intake pipe) as would a spacer on the carb, but not because that effects crankcase volume, but rather that it simply adds length to the intake pipe length

This is where I have to stop you.

This thread is about sharing with other 2-stroke bucketracers ideas that might help in competing against the dreaded FXR’s and SS150’s. It’s about having fun and enjoying the company of the whole small bike racing community.

Although I have a working plenum chambered bike I am not here to be the design engineer for someone who makes their living tuning 2-strokes or to assist a commercial enterprise.

I have already posted every thing you need, including links, in fact I posted the key to all of this again just this morning. If you don’t understand it, trawl through the links I have posted and think through what you read there like I did.

Your becoming lost and confused, keep it simple and for Gods sake, get over yourself and read some net info, before “Telling Me” more about how things work.

I have a functioning plenum chamber and understand how it works…….you don’t......its that simple.

[SS90]

I'm not feeling the love here.

[Yow Ling]

So what are you going to do about that frame ?
I have just done some work on my forks following F5 Daves suggetions with some success.
22hp will be giving that GP frame universal joint a workout, would it fit in your RG50 frame, I can post a picture of an rg 50 frame with a kv100 if you like

[TZ350]

I can post a picture of an rg 50 frame with a kv100 if you like

Yes please, I would like to see that..

[Yow Ling]

Yes please, I would like to see that..

There it is, turns out I cant post it , must be too stupid after all

[jasonu]

So what are you going to do about that frame ?
I have just done some work on my forks following F5 Daves suggetions with some success.
22hp will be giving that GP frame universal joint a workout, would it fit in your RG50 frame, I can post a picture of an rg 50 frame with a kv100 if you like

Mate, RG50 frame and 22hp. You're having a laugh.
The whole thing might be moot anyway. I have heard there is going to be a move to change the rules to allow 125 h20 2 strokes with no carb restrictions. If this is put to the MNZ, you, me, and all of the 150 coal burner crowd need to stand up and be heard.

[Kickaha]

I have heard there is going to be a move to change the rules to allow 125 h20 2 strokes with no carb restrictions. If this is put to the MNZ, you, me, and all of the 150 coal burner crowd need to stand up and be heard.

Chances are by the time we heard it would be to late, so how much does a RS125 Aprilla go for then?

Might have to see about about the capacity limit for 4 strokes getting upped to 200cc

[Yow Ling]

Mate, RG50 frame and 22hp. You're having a laugh.
The whole thing might be moot anyway. I have heard there is going to be a move to change the rules to allow 125 h20 2 strokes with no carb restrictions. If this is put to the MNZ, you, me, and all of the 150 coal burner crowd need to stand up and be heard.

It would still be better than a GP125 frame.
Is somebody or a group of somebodys pushing this change, I personally dont think its needed, but wouldnt be bothered if it happened. It would maybe cause the FXR brigade to be stronger with more FXR single model competitions to start up. What are the merits of 125 watercooled when a 100 will do the business ? Maybe start a new thread on this as it has nothing to do with TZ's development stuff