Can anyone tell me why bike shops only open for half a day on Sunday?

[Big Dave]

'Simply' Click the button from a local shop. There are several locally run sites where part of your money at least stays in the NZ industry. Open 24 hours.

here's a good one for gear that employs several KBers:
http://www.motomail.co.nz/

Here's another for example. Major Kiwi Rider Advertiser:
http://www.roadguide.co.nz/

And nice bikes here: Cheap KTMS too
http://www.amps.co.nz/

[Crasherfromwayback]

Don't worry, he's only talking about shops that produce 150hp dyno sheets for SV1000s.....

Doesn't matter if you produce a dyno sheet for an SV showing 180...as long as it goes out showing 187...it's all good.

[onearmedbandit]

Here - I can say if for the salesmen.
Because at 3.30 on a Sunday afternoon, when your young family is at home, or your mates are all riding, and you haven't seen anybody but pimply faced goobers, who couldn't afford a motorcycle if they pooled their dole cheques, for the last four hours - and the only decent prospect you followed up has had the guts chewed out of the deal by a rival retailer desperate for turnover, you say fuck this for a joke.

Been there, done that. And it is shite. And that's in the car industry (luckily the bike shop I worked for once closed an 12pm Saturday and reopened Monday.

Most bike shops in NZ are stuck in 1981.

I remember when Sundays were a family day, would've been around that time. Grandparents would visit, kids would play together, people would socialise. Now that we want 24/7 shopping family time has dropped off dramatically.

Any salesman worth his commission would meet a suitably qualified and genuine purchaser outside normal trading hours, at a mutually convenient time, by appointment.

Done that plenty of times too. It's great, because it's at the convenience of both the buyer and seller.

But your typical NZ bike shop doesn't want "customers" coming in and disrupting their busy day of important work running a bike shop. We are more of an inconvenient nuisance for them.

Hmmm, I definitely don't get that response. Maybe it's not the bike shops...

You've never heard of a roster system...???

Gee... the place I work at operates 24/7, 365 days a year and yet everybody still gets plenty of time off.

You want a small business owner to increase his overheads and risk further just so a few people can go shopping on Sunday?

Precisely. So could all the useless bike shops with their useless mechanics kindly fuck off and die.

The useless ones typically have already. Once again, may I suggest the fault doesn't actually lie with the bike shops.

All well to pull out a whole bunch of stats and make comparisons in a little bit of detail but you've missed the mark big time and missed out a few critical aspects which pretty much makes your comparison meaningless.

1) DSE and Harvey Norman sell Electronic goods which pretty much everyone uses these days hence
2) The foot traffic/volume of sales is much more higher as it serves a much larger sector unlike bikers who make up bugger all of the pop.

Nice try though.

Could you be assuming that majority of the customers would like shops to be open on Sat and Sun and closed two middle week days?

I've worked in both vehicle and electronic goods sales and agree completely. On a slow Sunday in electronics retail we would maybe make only 20-30 sales, everything from mp3 players through to large screen TV's or whiteware. On a slow Sunday in vehicle Sales (and I've worked on yards that have turnover of 120+units/mth) we might see 3 people. Have 1 test drive. And no sales.

Tearing down is much easier than building up - what would you suggest as a comparison?

I think you are focusing too much upon scale of operation rather than the customer demographic. I would say that the demographic for electronics customers is not too far off the mark from bike shop customers (obviously not an exact match but good enough for the purpose of estimating customer preferred opening hours).

I've worked in both, and the demographic (age, income, etc) are vastly different. Of course there is cross over, but they are wildly apart.

hire weekend only staff

Not as easy as it sounds. Salesperson A works with a client in the previous week, client comes in on Sunday and does deal with first salesperson he sees. Years ago there was a thing called customer loyalty, but that's now a dying thing (not only a change in customer attitudes but also poor staffing practices by some employers). I'm not above saying that I consider myself an above average salesperson, so do my peers and my employer, and I get a lot of repeat business and referrals. However there are still customers out there that don't give really consider that the 3 hrs of informing them you did in the previous week has actually cost the salesperson in time off the floor. And when that shit happens it can cause morale issues within the company if not handled correctly. As an employer you don't want your top flight guys looking elsewhere.

Why can't the shops figure out a way to compete with the internet (i.e., open longer hours, easy to get to, knowledgeable staff, good mechanics, good supply of accessories)

Because the internet never sleeps.
I've had more 'informed' knowledge from going and talking to people in the business then reading someones opinion from America.
Because it costs money to hold all accessories. A lot that won't sell at full retail, so you have to eventually drop the price to just above cost. Then it goes in the bargain bin, at a loss. So you're actually paying to sell something. All because a few people wanted every colour of knee slider ever made.

Or, hire some retired/semi retired bikers. Who have a shit load of experience, usually are pretty good at dealign with the public, have a good work ethic and loads out there would be glad to pick up a day or two days work to supplement the pension. And they don't care about working weekends cos they have the whole week off.

Sorted.

Not that they have anything better to do with their weekends with rides/family/etc.

>>Or, hire some retired/semi retired bikers.<<

To take the commissions off the full time staff?

I remember when an employer considered doing that. The fact he'd need to also find new weekly staff made him reconsider.

Who don't want to work weekends. Can't have it both ways.

Reading this, two things come through very loud and clear.

One is that some bike shops DO open at hours that suit the public. Good for them.

Others, don't . And the overwhelming reason that comes across is "We just don't want to". That's fine, no-one should be forced to open their business when they don't want to.

But, the counter of that, is if you aren't interested in service, I don't have to give you my custom. This is the age of the global innertubes, I can get stuff from the States pretty much as easy as from the other side of town. Delivered to my door.

If you aren't going to inconvenience yourself by opening at hours when I can visit you, then I'm not going to inconvenience myself by visting at hours that don't suit me. My alternative is a click of the button. So, don't whine and moan about parallel imports and people buying over the net. You don't want to sell me stuff, I'll go else where. Simple as that.

Following that argument, why aren't you doing just so? Instead of whinning and moaning on the internet. You know, you can't please all the people all the time. It's their business, their decision, just like it's your money and your decision.

[scott411]

there was a good article in a retailers magazine speaking about Hastings of all places, a smaller retailer was saying that the quality of staff apply for jobs dropped alot when working sundays was advertised as part of the job, this was as some pressure was coming on as alot of big box retail had moved into town and they were opening sundays,

speaking from experience, most of the guys that work in bike shops are enthusists, so like to go riding and racing on sundays when most of the events are run, i know i still sort of work sundays at events, (i sometimes even get to ride in them)

the mention of putting part timers in to cover them will not work in a lot of jobs, esp in parts where the knowledge level required of where to buy stuff form, the features etc of gear is pretty vast, its a tough decision but sometimes, but alot the owners take their and there employees lifestyle ahead of all out profit, which is not a bad thing overall,

as a side, when i stayed in a small town in belguim a few years ago, i found it werid that all shops closed for lunch from 12-1, then all the cafe's etc closed for lunch between 1-2, although it seemed weird at the time, it worked because everyone was the same (and all motorcycle shops closed wednesday afternoon so the staff could go riding pretty cool i thought) we are much in teh american 24 hour culture, were it is i want it know so you should open,

[DEATH_INC.]

I got sick of reading through all the shit, but feel then need to reply to this.........
Most of you have missed the important fact that many have Families, which are far a more important part of your life than a few lazy bastards that can't be bothered organising themselves enough to get shit for themselves.
How the hell did you guys survive before 7 day trading?????
This mindset is fucking the lives of many, both here and overseas too.
It won't end, the work week is getting longer and longer for the average joe, and it will keep doing so till people wake up to themselves.
And don't think because you have a cushie office job it won't get you eventually too, and when we all work 24/7 (like RT does) then when are you gonna go get your bike parts????
We used to survive just fine with shops open 9-5, 5 days a week once not that long ago...

[imdying]

Doesn't matter if you produce a dyno sheet for an SV showing 180...as long as it goes out showing 187...it's all good.

No, I guess some shops don't think that accuracy is actually important... tell them a few lies, they'll never find out

[Crasherfromwayback]

No, I guess some shops don't think that accuracy is actually important... tell them a few lies, they'll never find out

Nah...seat of the pants they'll know. Our dyno (and I'm assuming it's that you're taking a dig at) returns high numbers. But we can easily calculate real rear wheel numbers if that's what you want. Didn't stop Yoshimura Japan coming over to see it in action and being so impressed they ordered three themselves.

[onearmedbandit]

I got sick of reading through all the shit, but feel then need to reply to this.........
Most of you have missed the important fact that many have Families, which are far a more important part of your life than a few lazy bastards that can't be bothered organising themselves enough to get shit for themselves.
How the hell did you guys survive before 7 day trading?????
This mindset is fucking the lives of many, both here and overseas too.
It won't end, the work week is getting longer and longer for the average joe, and it will keep doing so till people wake up to themselves.
And don't think because you have a cushie office job it won't get you eventually too, and when we all work 24/7 (like RT does) then when are you gonna go get your bike parts????
We used to survive just fine with shops open 9-5, 5 days a week once not that long ago...

+1. And 10char.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I got sick of reading through all the shit, but feel then need to reply to this.........
Most of you have missed the important fact that many have Families, which are far a more important part of your life than a few lazy bastards that can't be bothered organising themselves enough to get shit for themselves.
How the hell did you guys survive before 7 day trading?????
This mindset is fucking the lives of many, both here and overseas too.
It won't end, the work week is getting longer and longer for the average joe, and it will keep doing so till people wake up to themselves.
And don't think because you have a cushie office job it won't get you eventually too, and when we all work 24/7 (like RT does) then when are you gonna go get your bike parts????
We used to survive just fine with shops open 9-5, 5 days a week once not that long ago...

All too true mate

[imdying]

Nah...seat of the pants they'll know. Our dyno (and I'm assuming it's that you're taking a dig at) returns high numbers. But we can easily calculate real rear wheel numbers if that's what you want. Didn't stop Yoshimura Japan coming over to see it in action and being so impressed they ordered three themselves.

Too hard to setup accurately, or just don't care?

[Crasherfromwayback]

Too hard to setup accurately, or just don't care?

Neither. More interested in getting improvements and results. Ask Brett Richmond. He came to us with his Shaft Motorcycles sponsored 883 Twinsport race bike, and paid for it out of his own pocket after getting dusted off by my 883.

[IdunBrokdItAgin]

Lots and lots of replies posted to my orginal question , of which I do apologise for getting the day wrong. Thanks to everyone for replying - it has made for a very interesting read.

But, I think I have got my answer.

I reckon it can be summed up in one sentence:
"That's the way we've been doing it for a while and no-one else in our industry attempts to out do the competition so everyone is happy".

In economics this situation is referred to as a monopolistically competitive industry, linky helps to explain for those interested http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopolistic_competition
Here the enviroment is around non-outperformance rather than profit making. And seems to happen at a localised level with small differences (in opening hours) between regions.

This type of economic situation usually leads to a downturn in customer demand (the industry is effectively eroded over time and consumer brand loyalty has to be heavily relied upon). The bike industry has seen this themselves with prospective consumers turning to other retail alternatives in order to purchase goods (internet based mainly).

In fact, in my opinion, the current practice leaves the door wide open for new competitors with modern business practices. But with the global financial climate still a bit unsteady I don't think the industry needs to worry about new entrants just now.

A lot of the replies have also been normal "change adverse" responses where socio-economic extremes are cited, such as: having bike shops open 24/7; the threat of losing all existing staff, if weekend staff were introduced; degradation of the family structure outside of the workplace if opening hours are altered; etc..

The main change adverse argument which has come up is the "We can't be compared to any other industry because we are unique". Hate to say it but pretty much every industry feels this way and there are very few which truly are. Even if an industry is currently unique, it will not remain that way - due to either product, communication, logistical or consumer changes.
I even put up a straw-man industry comparison (electronic retailers) - this was refuted by at least two people, but an invite for anyone to nominate another industry failed to attract any responses.

I think the industry needs to accept that it is applying an antiquated approach to opening hours whilst still trying to attract modern consumers. Modern consumers are, rightly or wrongly, used to having their needs serviced upon their terms. It is the old adage that "the customer is always right".

I again say that I like bike shops. But whilst I think the customer experience within a bike shop is very good, the customer opportunity to have that experience is poor - due to the experience mainly being available when the consumer is not.

But opening for more hours would, again in my opinion, increase the oppurtunity but decrease the experience (as staff morale declines, or new inexprienced staff are brought in to cover the extended hours). So I would not propose an increase in working hours as a viable solution (it also realises some of the socio-economic arguments listed above).

I would honestly suggest changing, not increasing, opening hours to tailor them closer to what the customer wants. Either later opening with later closing, closed a weekday but open Saturday afternoon or a hybrid of these.

Any changes won't instantly lead to hundreds of bikers with bulging wallets walking through your doors on a saturday afternoon but may well lead to a rise in the increase in sales over a longer period (while the consumer becomes fully aware of the changes in opening hours and adapts to them).
Long term benefits could lead to increased product ranges being available to the customer and increased profit to the industry.

Anyway, write all of this off as hogwash if you want - I did try to check out my facts as much as I can do from the comfort of my computer. This is just a modern consumer giving the industry his honest opinion.

Thanks again for all the replies.

[Robert Taylor]

Doesn't matter if you produce a dyno sheet for an SV showing 180...as long as it goes out showing 187...it's all good.

Exactly right, what is often missed is that engine dynos are comparators. As long as you are using the same dyno, the same operator and the same pedantic warm up, heat soak and run procedures you are going to get excellent repeatability and wont be fooling yourself. It wouldnt matter if the dyno was calibrated in units of bananas, its still only a bloody comparator.
Moreover I think dyno sheets and their bragging rights are very often akin to men comparing the size of their wedding tackle or women comparing the size of their feet enshading devices....
Big horsepower also doesnt always equate to race wins either, as the Pirelli slogan goes ''horsepower is nothing without control''

[Ixion]

I got sick of reading through all the shit, but feel then need to reply to this.........
Most of you have missed the important fact that many have Families, which are far a more important part of your life than a few lazy bastards that can't be bothered organising themselves enough to get shit for themselves.
How the hell did you guys survive before 7 day trading?????
This mindset is fucking the lives of many, both here and overseas too.
It won't end, the work week is getting longer and longer for the average joe, and it will keep doing so till people wake up to themselves.
And don't think because you have a cushie office job it won't get you eventually too, and when we all work 24/7 (like RT does) then when are you gonna go get your bike parts????
We used to survive just fine with shops open 9-5, 5 days a week once not that long ago...

Nope. Not true. Never was a time in my lifetime when trading hours were 9 to 5 5 days a week.

Before weekend trading there was ALWAYS a late night. And that late night, the bike shops were CROWDED. To a degree never seen today.

That's what's gotten lost. As someone said - when weekend trading came in, most businesses said "Well, if we are going to open weekends, we will drop the late night". Fair enough.

But bike shops just said, "Oh good, we can drop the late night". Back then, the innertubes was in their infancy, so they got away with it. Now, the pidgeons are coming home to roost.

Fair enough too. Y' don't want my business (cos that is emphatically the message I'm receiving), that's OK. Don't need shops these days. but BLOODY STOP WITH THE WHINING about how hard done you are cos people order from overseas off the net. Or Trademe.

Yes, it's cheaper. But I wouldn't do it (or not near as often), if you were willing to sell me what I need. If you're not, then I'll go else where. And that elsewhere will be the net. If you're in business to go on rides, instead of sell stuff, well, that's your call. But stop whining that it's not fair cos people won't rearrange their lives and jobs to suit your riding calendar.

Trademe has pretty much knocked most secondhand and antique shops out of business. Easier for folk to buy off the net. I'm guessing in a few years time, most bike shops will ahve gone the same way.

[Big Dave]

It it was worth the effort - commerce would dictate that it would already be done.
Other industries may also be unique - just like everyone else.