Practice riding not reading.

[Sentox]

And only training will ingrain good technique. but it helps to at least have an idea of what technique you are trying to instill before you pick up bad habits? ... But I agree that its one thing to know it, and its completely another to do it properly. That only comes by practice.

This is exactly how I feel about it. I'm quite new to riding. Riding, however, is not a new activity. Many, many people before me have refined the art of handling a bike. If someone else wants to reinvent the wheel, that's fine by me. Personally, I don't have enough time in my life to live in a nice little bubble of ignorance.

I've learned a great many things by reading. I also still do a great many things wrong in my riding, but at least with the information available I can identify them and work on progressively eliminating them. Sure beats osmosis or however the hell else it's supposed to happen.

[Ratti]

For what it's worth...
WhenI identify a problem. I like to read possible solutions, ponder and discuss with other people.
Distill the collected opinion/knowledge, then cautiously try it out at an appropriate time.
eg the whole concept of counter steering. hell of a lot of fun to play with. Sort of understand the physics of it, but am starting to feel in my body how stable it makes the bike-under certain circumstances.

Combination of other peoples opinions/knowledge and my own experience. I think it's likely that postors are all referring to the same process.

More riding I say!

[tigertim20]

That makes you part of the problem, since now there may only be one opinion and one truth - yours!
oh goodgodman!! read my post, I state quite clearly, that in many situations there are numerous possible responses to a situation e.g. tail gating, I used YOUR preferred response -open the gas, and mine, pull over, let him past. I followed up by saying that "in the right circumstances' EITHER COULD BE THE RIGHT RESPONSE.
If you don't agree with some statement I make, lets hear your sound and reasoned logic? I am not above eating my own words after a proposition is presented that is better supported in logic than mine is presented.
Ihave done many times, perhaps you have selective memory. further to above, the right response depends on the above circumstances, the logic will change as the circumstances change. I am saying that reading is less helpfull than riding, because riding provides you the opportunity to learn, through experience. one persons experience (of say tailgating) will differ from another persons experience. thus reading another persons way of responding does NOT necessarily provide you with a tool to deal with it. you need to experience it, look at the facts and react wisely.
As it stands, that does not happen. Merely a put-down such as yours is posted, and all conventional rational discussion is out the window. Perhaps your opinion should be taken as read and others' rejected, simply on the basis of the amount of force accompanying it? I do not think so, and you will discover many others do not either.
blah blah blah, get of the high horse man. I didnt 'put you down' I stated an opinion. as one other has already said in this thread, (and MANY others have said in other threads where you have posted) your name on here "Dangerous Bastard" is very apt, and your advice to learner bikers is often the type of advice that is more likely to cause them harm than good.
KB is an open forum, and people are free to present any and all ideas, feelings, and opinions, and they are not subject to your or any other persons veto. If you are unhappy about this, then do not participate, or better still, contribute a well-formed opinion of your own, and back it up with some well-formed logic.
my GOD!!!!! listen to yourself eh? have a read through ALL of your posts, and look at peoples responses. I am quite certain that more people would agree that your advice is often dangerous, than would would agree that you provide sound, safe advice. or, wait, no, thats right, DB is the god, the king, he is the holy grail of all motorcycling knowledge!! bow down to him all!!!
Insulting people and garnering support against them in social groups simply because you believe something different to them automatically categorises yourself, without any put-down needed by anyone else. "Part of the problem and not part of the solution."
crikey, how many times you need to reword the same comment in one post?
Talk about it like human beings. Use politeness. Challenge my remarks. Take issue with the facts that have been presented. Post a correction. State your opinion. Tell us how you feel. Own your own statements, and eat them where necessary.
I have done!!!
edit: and you have a good day as well!

Steve

steve if you read a little slower, you will find I have provided reason for my opinions. and yep. they are just that. now simply posted an opinion that differed toy= yours, and YOU are the one posting a big thing about not accepting other peoples opinions. maybe you should try and heed your own advice?
you say you are not above eating your own words, well, you have done that many many times on here. perhaps you should employ the 'think for 5 minutes, speak for one minute' theory, instead of the think for one, talk for five theory. Youll find you learn alot more, and eat much less of your own words.

[R-Soul]

More riding I say!

Hallelujah sister! Now if I could just get out of my office more often...

[Ratti]

yup....I could kidnap you and email your boss to demand a ransom or I will post you back one piece at a time....
then you could go riding while s/he pisses about trying to work out if you are worth spending the money on.

[BMWST?]

Personally I do not understand why people read about riding in the first place.
If your having to read about it - your doing it wrong.

no...people are different.Some like to just get out and try it,other like to know why where how before they try it...

[tigertim20]

This is exactly how I feel about it. I'm quite new to riding. Riding, however, is not a new activity. Many, many people before me have refined the art of handling a bike. If someone else wants to reinvent the wheel, that's fine by me. Personally, I don't have enough time in my life to live in a nice little bubble of ignorance.

I've learned a great many things by reading. I also still do a great many things wrong in my riding, but at least with the information available I can identify them and work on progressively eliminating them. Sure beats osmosis or however the hell else it's supposed to happen.

I am not necessarily saying this is a bad thing, but here is my question. do you have one or two set-in-stone, reliable sources to whom you always go for advice, or do you just 'filter' info. the latter I would say is dangerous, but if you have set, reliable sources, be it a book, an experienced rider or whatever, then that is a great (and probably the best) way to gain answers to the questions that may arise in your mind while riding.

[thealmightytaco]

Can't believe I'm gonna say it, but apart from the ridiculous slaggin part of what he's said, I'm tending towards DB's opinion on this one. I can kind of see what you intended to say frosty but it came out a bit of a sweeping statement.

To quote Bruce Lee, "Practise without theory is inefficient, theory without practise is pointless."

You really need both, and in all it's irony, I would think that to post that learners shouldn't read too much is in itself one of the more dangerous things to tell them.

[Sentox]

I am not necessarily saying this is a bad thing, but here is my question. do you have one or two set-in-stone, reliable sources to whom you always go for advice, or do you just 'filter' info. the latter I would say is dangerous, but if you have set, reliable sources, be it a book, an experienced rider or whatever, then that is a great (and probably the best) way to gain answers to the questions that may arise in your mind while riding.

For the record, "Sport Riding Techniques" (Nick Ienatsch) is my main resource. Obviously I've gathered information from other sources, but I agree that simply harvesting advice willy-nilly is not the brightest approach.

[avgas]

You submit that everyone should collect information about motorcycling (and perhaps other things as well) by their own initial actions from scratch, with no reading material or consultation with others?

We would still be in the dark ages with that level of collaboration, or rather lack of it. Thats absurd.

Steve

Not all the time. But I have found that sometimes you can read a million books or listen to 100's of others ideas.......but until you actually try it, it all doesn't count for shit. Everyone is different, sometimes reading how others do things - doesn't help you own situation.
But prove me wrong, I have just offered you advice..........go an use it.......just to prove me wrong.

[Sentox]

Not all the time. But I have found that sometimes you can read a million books or listen to 100's of others ideas.......but until you actually try it, it all doesn't count for shit. Everyone is different, sometimes reading how others do things - doesn't help you own situation. But prove me wrong

Well, this statement is obviously correct. Few would argue that knowledge without practice is any use in a physical sport. And some people just aren't cut out for "book learning". But to somehow derive that the use of books or other third-party sources to learn means no practice occurs is missing the entire point. The whole purpose is to facilitate more efficient practice.

You could probably learn to play Beethoven's 23rd without such spurious additions as piano tuition or sheet music. For most people, however, a combination of theory and practice is going to save a lot of time.

[Katman]

Pdath fries my brain.

[FROSTY:Me]

To quote Bruce Lee, "Practise without theory is inefficient, theory without practise is pointless."
You really need both, and in all it's irony, I would think that to post that learners shouldn't read too much is in itself one of the more dangerous things to tell them.

I was really making 2 points
1) Its one thing the know it in your head sitting behind a computer Its a whole other thing to KNOW it with your body on a bike in the situation.
2)Bike riding knowledge needs to be built apon step by step. If we use a couple of unrelated examples
The pianist quoted above is hardly going to go into playing Beethoven when he still can't even do chopsticks without looking at his hands.
A Pilot isn't going to expect to be able to land a 747 into LAX when he's still figuring out touch n go's in a cherokee 152

[steve_t]

A Pilot isn't going to expect to be able to land a 747 into LAX when he's still figuring out touch n go's in a cherokee 152

I can promise you that even though this is true, it doesn't stop the touch and go level pilots jumping on forums telling other people how to do the LAX landing cos they read it somewhere

[R-Soul]

You really need both, and in all it's irony, I would think that to post that learners shouldn't read too much is in itself one of the more dangerous things to tell them.

Actually the irony lies in the fact that he posted the advice not to listen to advice on a forum.

hehe just having a dig Frosty.

Actually good points have come out:
1) Knowing in theory is nowhere close to doing.
2) Be careful where you get your advice from.

I know that I like to dredge up theory from books in response to questions. I also know that I would have some difficulty putting my own theory into practice, as I have probably not had anwhere close to the experience and practice that others on the site have had.
But does that mean I should not say anything? It is a forum after all, and the idea is to share ideas, and to discuss options.

Whether or not the "truth" gets hidden in the debate - well that is why we have mentors answering questions, and correcting incorrect points of view right?