Can anyone tell me why bike shops only open for half a day on Sunday?

[SS90]

Haha that's the point he's trying to make and guys like you just keep saying its not comparable and he's trying to say "why not, when are you going to try a different business model to relieve more people of their money and make the business more profitable?" The industry is being offered a wealth of free advice from punters with money on this thread and you keep rejecting suggestions which is basically saying "no, don't want your money".

No skin off my nose I'll keep spending it on overseas trips like I do.

No Merv, I am just trying to point out that to compare any other business model to the NZ bike industry is impossible.

Steven say's he "worked last sunday", while, at the same time, watched his kids play in a park in Tokyo.

How the hell does that relate to working in a bike shop in Upper Hutt? (or anywhere else in NZ for that matter?)

You can't work in a bike shop while watching your kids play.

If this parallel universe actually exsisted, I assure you, bike shops wold be more likely to open Sunday's (while it's workers sat in a park in Tokyo, watching their kids play, and sold bike and accessories to customers using their laptops.

Tui Moment.

[merv]

... haha again, you are right the business models don't compare now, but the point is they never will be if you keep your head in the sand and keep saying oh they are different so the point isn't relevant. What the posts on here are saying is the point is relevant in that you need to sharpen up and try something different like the rest of the world is, otherwise Upper Hutt will always be Upper Hutt as it is today gawd help us.

Anything that Stephen is mentioning could be done in NZ if you wanted to try it.

If everyone had an attitude like yours nothing would change - we would never have had drive in Maccas or pizza delivery, or ATM machines or cell phones if people decades ago had said you can't do that in NZ because "How the hell does that relate to ............ Upper Hutt? .... when back in 1970 for example none of that existed in Upper Hutt.

You wouldn't have drunk Tui either as they probably didn't "import" it to Upper Hutt then - everyone drunk there own local brand and now the brands have gone National.

This thread started with one person asking about Sundays and I for one said I'm not too worried about that as evenings would suit me. The real crux of the matter is responsiveness to customers all of whom are different. Don't keep telling us we can't have it because its just not done like that here in NZ. Else we keep saying, oh you don't want our money then. Who wins? Not the shops, as our bank balances stay topped up because we buy nothing from the shop, or we spend it somewhere else.

[SS90]

http://driverstand.com/tenpo/top/link/index4.html

sorry may i just add this , Attachment 201576

just out of interest this is my local big chain shop , where i can buy tyres and jacket ( of which they do have some very smart summer gear in ,,,)
there is always one knowledgeable staff on call and yes i know the size of the market , but this is an example of what others are used to ,

stephen

wtf?.........

[SS90]

... haha again, you are right the business models don't compare now, but the point is they never will be if you keep your head in the sand and keep saying oh they are different so the point isn't relevant. What the posts on here are saying is the point is relevant in that you need to sharpen up and try something different like the rest of the world is, otherwise Upper Hutt will always be Upper Hutt as it is today gawd help us.

Anything that Stephen is mentioning could be done in NZ if you wanted to try it.

If everyone had an attitude like yours nothing would change - we would never have had drive in Maccas or pizza delivery, or ATM machines or cell phones if people decades ago had said you can't do that in NZ because "How the hell does that relate to ............ Upper Hutt? .... when back in 1970 for example none of that existed in Upper Hutt.

You wouldn't have drunk Tui either as they probably didn't "import" it to Upper Hutt then - everyone drunk there own local brand and now the brands have gone National.

This thread started with one person asking about Sundays and I for one said I'm not too worried about that as evenings would suit me. The real crux of the matter is responsiveness to customers all of whom are different. Don't keep telling us we can't have it because its just not done like that here in NZ. Else we keep saying, oh you don't want our money then. Who wins? Not the shops, as our bank balances stay topped up because we buy nothing from the shop, or we spend it somewhere else.

Merv, I live in Austria, before that, 3 years in Germany, before that London, before that Dublin.

All those places, except London (even then about 10% of the shops open Sunday, and the company I worked for certainly did not open Sunday) don't have bike shops open Sunday.

about 50% have half day Saturday.

Where is your "something different like the rest of the world" ?

New Zealand is with the majority of the world regarding opening hours.

The only place I have spent any reasonable amount of time (being work trips, so that I actually deal with local companies, that HAS been open odd hours os Tokyo.

The Wayno (sp) district, 10 years ago was amazing, full of accessory and bike shops, open seemingly endless hours.

December 09, what a waste of time.

20% of the shops where still there, all stocking the same shit, and at 7PM on a Friday, bugger all people there, and when I enquired, it came to light that because the market had changed as far as bikes where concerened, the shops had to cut staff, but beacause the market has established itself as a "open all hours market", even with drastically reduced turnover, the poor shops had to remain open the same hours, with reduced staff, just to stay above water.


Tokyo has 13 million people............ even if only 10% of the population rides bikes of some sort (assure you it is ore like 30%, perhaps 50% ) that is a drastically bigger market than NZ, think about that for a second, more people in Tokyo ride scooters, than there are people in all New Zealand.

So, going by my experience, if a big city like that can't flourish with great opening hours to suit everyone, how can NZ?

[Brian d marge]

now you are just being difficult

click on the link and it show all the different brand names i can access , but more importantly the time I can access them

When it comes to Japan

I live here, been and still AM in the industry an Do know what is going on , more so in some respect than the gaijins ( of which I am one , ) who flock here and FAIL completely to understand the culture then give opinions ( not just bikes )

Ive been here ten years and am ONLY JUST understanding the culture, ( where else can a person take a tea drinking class for NINE years and still be learning about drinking a cup of tea!)

Your ARE making VERY valid points which are noted and others agree with , BUT

as you yourself have noted the business model has changed ( the Internet has only really been round for the last 15 years , So older business model I doubt would have fully grasped the enormity of the change

I design bike parts, and even though I use relativity new and powerful software , I am only Just beginning to grasp the freedom I have

I can connect to the web I can conduct my business, Though large parts of my business is still the old fashioned press the flesh this weekend is going to be LOOONNNGG

My personal feeling is that the model of bike shop has changed from a service work , to an entertainment /lifestyle one where the majority of the money will come from helping people enjoy their time off ( for us riding bikes) Scott and others putting on events such as trail riding not the old repair shop ..( as you pointed out , ueno has changed because of the Internet and the youth culture that really doesn't use motor vehicles any more ,,, )

Failing that the turn over of stock needs to be considerable and I think that may be difficult under current conditions

I personally dont care , David silver spares for Honda , 5 or 10 from England on your doorstep no worries ( Skype , ,,, from the park ! no worries ) and cheap as

my money , your call

IF my customers are off sat and sun which I assume are office hours , then my shop or service needs to cater to those hours , its really is a no brainer

Wed off , or half day wed remember those !

and if we don't keep an eye on those in wellington , it could very well be the last days of motorcyling as we know it , .... only for the wealthy ... heading that way already .

Stephen

[SS90]

now you are just being difficult

click on the link and it show all the different brand names i can access , but more importantly the time I can access them

When it comes to Japan

I live here, been and still AM in the industry an Do know what is going on , more so in some respect than the gaijins ( of which I am one , ) who flock here and FAIL completely to understand the culture then give opinions ( not just bikes )

Ive been here ten years and am ONLY JUST understanding the culture, ( where else can a person take a tea drinking class for NINE years and still be learning about drinking a cup of tea!)

Your ARE making VERY valid points which are noted and others agree with , BUT

as you yourself have noted the business model has changed ( the Internet has only really been round for the last 15 years , So older business model I doubt would have fully grasped the enormity of the change

I design bike parts, and even though I use relativity new and powerful software , I am only Just beginning to grasp the freedom I have

I can connect to the web I can conduct my business, Though large parts of my business is still the old fashioned press the flesh this weekend is going to be LOOONNNGG

My personal feeling is that the model of bike shop has changed from a service work , to an entertainment /lifestyle one where the majority of the money will come from helping people enjoy their time off ( for us riding bikes) Scott and others putting on events such as trail riding not the old repair shop ..( as you pointed out , ueno has changed because of the Internet and the youth culture that really doesn't use motor vehicles any more ,,, )

Failing that the turn over of stock needs to be considerable and I think that may be difficult under current conditions

I personally dont care , David silver spares for Honda , 5 or 10 from England on your doorstep no worries ( Skype , ,,, from the park ! no worries ) and cheap as

my money , your call

IF my customers are off sat and sun which I assume are office hours , then my shop or service needs to cater to those hours , its really is a no brainer

Wed off , or half day wed remember those !

and if we don't keep an eye on those in wellington , it could very well be the last days of motorcyling as we know it , .... only for the wealthy ... heading that way already .

Stephen

I acknowledge your points, but (I'm not trying to be difficult), I am trying to point out that because of NZ's small population, the risks associated with opening strange hours in NZ (wages) do simply not add up.

I remember 15 years ago a big shop in ChCh opening late Friday nights AND Sunday's.......stopped. Another 2 years ago, open all day Saturday, and Sunday, closed Monday and Tuesday. Now it's down to 6 days, and the Saturday is REAL hard yards for the staff and owner.

I wish it did work for the industry, the fact is it doesn't. Lots of people are giving reasons why shops SHOULD be open longer/more hours, and the reasons they are not, are always the same. The market is too small, and profits too low to justify it. It's that simple.

Perhaps, in ten years, yes, that is a realistic concept, maybe even 5 (at a push), but, I assure you, EVERYTHING in these shops will be more expensive, and perhaps you may even have to pay for your coffee, or, as has been shown, another profitable portion of the business will be added to all these shops. Perhaps a few more will have the high profit "cafe" on site. $4 for a coffee (great profit), 100 Coffee's a day....... then you could justify a staff member on site (to run the cafe), and PERHAPS a commission only salesman (that will make him/her work their ass off....for a few weeks anyway....till they see how low sales are compared to cars , scarves, etc)

Is that a business model that sound appealing, because, it is a realistic one.

[onearmedbandit]

I'm only 34 right, still wet behind the ears. But I do remember when the only shops of any sort open on weekends was the New Brighton Mall. Now I'm almost certain I can assume that no bike or car shops were open for trade either. Soooo, if everyone worked the '40hr week', how on earth did the people of that time get their cars/bikes serviced or fuck even buy one? There was no internet, so shopping on the bosses time at work, or after hours, wasn't possible. You were at work Mon-Fri. The car/bike dealership was open, um, Mon-Fri. How did these people survive!!!!

I don't know, but it seems to me that people are now expecting businesses to operate to their conditions, all because of this internet thing. Mabe they just can't compete. In fact, they can't. I can sit in front of my computer at 2 in the morning, watching some crap on TV or listening to music (of my choice), cig burning in my ashtray, and visit a hundred different stores. And yet retailers expect me to come in during the hours they choose, wear appropriate clothing, I'm not allowed to smoke, I have to listen to their choice of musac, and if I want to visit a hundred different stores, well the other retailers expect me to come to them. That's just not on, I mean the internet lets me do all that. In fact, they might as well close up shop completely, because until they operate the way I want it's just not fair to me.

In a far far away land, the fairy princess grants me my wish. All retailers are now open 24hrs, in fact they'll bring their entire stock to your house for you just to look at any time. But hold on a minute, I can get this part much cheaper off the 'net. What do you mean that to compete with the internet you had to raise your prices to cover costs?? Do you not understand, you're still not competing with the INTERNET!!!.

You retailers suck. I'm going to complain about this on the internet.



[early morning rant over]

[Headbanger]

I don't know, but it seems to me that people are now expecting businesses to operate to their conditions,

If they want our money then that is the way to get it. They have to meet the needs and expectations of their customers to stay in business, if they don't the customers go elsewhere and the business will fail. Sure as hell isn't the customers fault (OMG, Think of the children)

If customers go elsewhere (taking it international?) it just shows that retailers failed to provide the expected service, and retailers whinging about it on the internet only indicates how wrong they have it.

[R-Soul]

Motorcycle businesses already run on very low nett profit so you can remove that part out of the equation.

I would suggest that it is because their costs are so high because they pay people to stand around scratching their bums at times that most customers cannot or dont want to get to them.

[R-Soul]

Steven, none of the examples you have given (suit purchasing, and appliance shopping) are even remotely comparable to the Motorcycle industry in New Zealand..... or anywhere else in the world for that matter.

I think what he is saying is that the motorcycle industry in NZ SHOULD BE comparable to the examples he has given. Good service, upselling, making use of the relationship and the large range and the ability of customers to try on bits, and havinga salesperson around to suggest alternatives and gude you around each and every possible alternative in the hope that that one will fit perfectly.

It compares favourably to the current NZ business model which involves walking in, being ignored for 20 minutes, finally catching somones attention and asking for advice, and being met with a blank stare, or a "take it or leave it" bad attitude. Now I am not saying that sales people shoudl grovel or shit like that. But a friendly helpful attitude goes a long way to convincing a person he should come back. and if the salesperson recognises the person from a previous visit, that's starting to build a relationship.

If we want cold shoulders, bad attitude and lack of options, we can go online, and not get face-to-face bad attitude.

I think sales people are typically regarded (sometimes even by themselves) as being the bottom of the food chain in NZ, being students easily replaceable with no skills required. But actually they are the face of the business, the interface with cuistomers, and the main support column behind the only point of differentiation that retail shops have. They SHOULD be highly trained to understand the imprtant work they do, and should be incentivised by sales targets, profit sharing, etc to provide the most effective service.



This is not an "industry thing", this is just good business practice- milking your points of differentiation.

[R-Soul]

I acknowledge your points, but (I'm not trying to be difficult), I am trying to point out that because of NZ's small population, the risks associated with opening strange hours in NZ (wages) do simply not add up.

I remember 15 years ago a big shop in ChCh opening late Friday nights AND Sunday's.......stopped. Another 2 years ago, open all day Saturday, and Sunday, closed Monday and Tuesday. Now it's down to 6 days, and the Saturday is REAL hard yards for the staff and owner.

I wish it did work for the industry, the fact is it doesn't. Lots of people are giving reasons why shops SHOULD be open longer/more hours, and the reasons they are not, are always the same. The market is too small, and profits too low to justify it. It's that simple.

Perhaps, in ten years, yes, that is a realistic concept, maybe even 5 (at a push), but, I assure you, EVERYTHING in these shops will be more expensive, and perhaps you may even have to pay for your coffee, or, as has been shown, another profitable portion of the business will be added to all these shops. Perhaps a few more will have the high profit "cafe" on site. $4 for a coffee (great profit), 100 Coffee's a day....... then you could justify a staff member on site (to run the cafe), and PERHAPS a commission only salesman (that will make him/her work their ass off....for a few weeks anyway....till they see how low sales are compared to cars , scarves, etc)

Is that a business model that sound appealing, because, it is a realistic one.

Its good- adds to the profit centre and diversifies the points of differentiation- not just relationships and range, but good coffee. Although you dont want to diversify your business model too much.

I feel that you need to focus and decide what you are selling. are you selling bike parts? Internet sells bike parts. Or are you selling a common PASSION? because if you are, then make the shop a place of passion for bikes. A place to see bikes, to talk about bikes, to get advice about bikes, to modify bikes, to make biker friends, to be respected as a fellow biker, to ride real (and virtual) bikes, to compare bikes... you name it! A magazine rack of all the latest bike magazines. PS3 games with MotoGP that customers can play on against each other (Helps teach riding lines).

How about having an experienced/pro rider around (like a pro golfer in a golf pro shop) answering riding technique questions - maybe even riding out around the block with customers in their new suits/bikes, giving advice. Have a few videos going of the latest MotoGP/AMA supercross videos, showing all the fun that the new gear is going to bring. Maybe a dyno where you can see other customers testing their bikes, and which can encourage debate and ribbing??

A customer may come through more for coffee and advice from the rider and less to buy gear, but WHEN he does buy gear, its going to be there in your shop. Because it will be a place that excites him and reminds him of his passion, and he will want to go there and be around there. And there is coffee for the missus. It certainly beats Westfield...

Everyone whinges about NZ markets being too small to run shops with good service. It only has to be better than all the other dull shops in the same town, and there will be more than enough market fo it.

[Headbanger]

I just find in bizarre I can go into a place like Anzas and be completely ignored (and then treated like a dick) while cash burns a huge hole in my pocket, even after talking to them on the phone just minutes before arrival and telling them we were coming to buy a bike. One salesman even said hello to me as he walked past to stand outside and sun himself. WTF?

Madness. Fuckers are living in a bubble.

[R-Soul]

Has that last post woken up a new way of thinking? Fuck me I surprise myself sometimes...

[IdunBrokdItAgin]

Its good- adds to the profit centre and diversifies the points of differentiation- not just relationships and range, but good coffee. Although you dont want to diversify your business model too much.

I feel that you need to focus and decide what you are selling. are you selling bike parts? Internet sells bike parts. Or are you selling a common PASSION? because if you are, then make the shop a place of passion for bikes. A place to see bikes, to talk about bikes, to get advice about bikes, to modify bikes, to make biker friends, to be respected as a fellow biker, to ride real (and virtual) bikes, to compare bikes... you name it! A magazine rack of all the latest bike magazines. PS3 games with MotoGP that customers can play on against each other (Helps teach riding lines).

How about having an experienced/pro rider around (like a pro golfer in a golf pro shop) answering riding technique questions - maybe even riding out around the block with customers in their new suits/bikes, giving advice. Have a few videos going of the latest MotoGP/AMA supercross videos, showing all the fun that the new gear is going to bring. Maybe a dyno where you can see other customers testing their bikes, and which can encourage debate and ribbing??

A customer may come through more for coffee and advice from the rider and less to buy gear, but WHEN he does buy gear, its going to be there in your shop. Because it will be a place that excites him and reminds him of his passion, and he will want to go there and be around there. And there is coffee for the missus. It certainly beats Westfield...

Everyone whinges about NZ markets being too small to run shops with good service. It only has to be better than all the other dull shops in the same town, and there will be more than enough market fo it.

Green rep gone your way for that post.

What you have put there is a "nirvana" bike shop experience for the customer. Anyone would agree that, whilst that situation might not be hard to set up, it would be hard to keep going. It does however give great ideas of what initiatives would draw prospective customers to a place (and provide the shop staff with a selling opportunity).

Quite interested with the idea of a "golf shop pro" equivalent for bikers - frig you would see people flock to one of those but they might get inudated by people wanting free training. May have to restrict their availability to your premium customers (ones that are generating larger sales - such as bikes).

But maybe a golf shop is good comparison to a bike shop. I know some will say"WTF" but if you take away some of the preconceptions they have a lot in common: both considered a passion, both have a initial equipment requirement purchase (golf clubs vs bike), both have multiple brands basically producing the same item, lots of accessories/ upgardes to purchase and, most importantly, both preferably use a sunny sunday afternoon when performing the activity.

Pretty damn sure that if you asked someone who works in a golf shop they would say that they need to be very knowledgable in order to answer customer questions and sell them the correct thing.

Sod my dick smith comparison, golf shops are a far better comparable industry.

Now I'm not into golf, so can somone who is give an idea of how the golf shop business model operates?

[onearmedbandit]

Sod my dick smith comparison, golf shops are a far better comparable industry.

Now I'm not into golf, so can somone who is give an idea of how the golf shop business model operates?

You could directly approach a retail outfit and ask them. Just don't do it on Sunday, some are closed as they are that passionate about their sport that they are closed and out playing golf.