The chance of a lifetime: You are asked to start a bike shop. How should it be done?

[Robert Taylor]

The recurring theme in this thread is that some people who don't work in the motorcycle industry, see themselves as intellectual messiahs, able to revolutionise the industry with their "new" ideas. Are you really so ignorant to actually think that there are no valid reasons why your ideas won't work?

If your simplistic concepts were indeed able to save or improve the trade, you can rest assured that they would already be in practice. In the meantime, at least have the humility to listen to those who have been there, and know the full picture.

If you can't do that, then put your money where your mouth is - show us all how it is done.

Amen to that. Fairly, I think there are a number who have posted in this thread who have been able to see both sides of the story.

I remember a motorcycle shop starting up in Howick back in the late 80s that espoused that they had the proffessional touch and were going to shake rattle and roll the established dealers. I think they lasted six months, this was of course before the internet. This has been common in all the years Ive been in the industry and a lot of it is because people start up very undercapitalised. They may often have the very best intentions but frankly experience is everything in this industry.
There is a saying going around and sadly it has rung true so many times...''How do you turn a large fortune into a small fortune? Become a motorcycle dealer! " There are a few ex farmers I know that can attest to that, boy did they find out quick how complex and unforgiving this line of business can be.
Its easy to criticise but a lot of the posts on here are indicative of just not having the first idea of what it costs just for a business to open its doors.
And yes, certainly the industry can improve, part of that is to have a lot less dealers and for there to be a lot stricter criteria to be one.

[bogan]

You cannot bulk buy if you dont have a distributor agreement with the manufacturer

Distribution agreements are not handed out like Santas sweets, with especially the higher end products ( from countries that make quality and well engineered products ) you have to satisfy a load of strict criteria and have to have a solid investment in infrastructure. And they will only have one exclusive distributor in most small to large economies

Many or most manufacturers will not tolerate a distributor also having rights to a product that competes directly. For example we have been approached several times to take on a suspension brand that is pretty much the competition to Ohlins at that end of the market. That would seriously compromise our relationship with Ohlins and could end it.
This would be no less similiar if for example you were importing competing brands of oil , exhaust systems or any number of products.

Such business models of distribution that have been put forward would only happen if the rest of the world would accept it, well the rest of the world is not about to change to suit little old NZ lost at the bottom of the world.

We're obviously not thinking along the same lines here, so I'll put forward my logic, and you can point out exactly where it goes wrong.

1) International Internet sales are taking parts buisness away from local dealers
answer) set up a buisness in NZ to perform the same service as the internet seller
2) Could such a buisness get parts here at a price that will be compeditive with international internet stores?
answer) I beleive so, post #161 shows buying large numbers (i thought that was bulk, but your definition seems to differ) from one of the international sites and reselling the parts here could be compeditive (gst and local postage taken into account).
3) That works on paper now, but the dollar is strong, what happens when it goes down.
answer) It becomes less viable, maybe not viable at all.
4) Can it be made more viable?
answer) yes, buy from the people who sell to such international internet sites, I have already found info on the wholeseller to wemoto.com, and they do international shipping, and sound like in small enough quantities too.
5) How hard is it to get the dealer status needed to buy from them? and what is the discount rates likely to be?
answer) dunno about the first one, but I would assume for a site servicing the whole of NZ (only those that do internet orders though) wouldn't be too difficult. And I assume the discount rates are enough to enable a profit on the parts after resale (otherwise how would wemoto survive).

So they are currently my thoughts, your take on them?

[Conquiztador]

I surrender. I fucken give up! All you in the trade have beaten me in to submission with your lack of willingness to look at things in a different light. By refusing to allow bikers just to throw ideas around. By being stubborn, pigheaded, lacking of humour, grey and not accepting that maybe, just maybe there is another way. Maybe there is no other way. Maybe you are right. But shit, why then spend hundreds of posts trying to state the obvious? By winning this debate you have actually lost. But I have already figured out that you will never see that. So I will leave you in your misery.

This thread was never about telling you in the trade that you do not know what you are doing. The ones of you who have been in business for years clearly know heaps. But fuck are you a negative bunch!

Peace!

[Robert Taylor]

We're obviously not thinking along the same lines here, so I'll put forward my logic, and you can point out exactly where it goes wrong.

1) International Internet sales are taking parts buisness away from local dealers
answer) set up a buisness in NZ to perform the same service as the internet seller
2) Could such a buisness get parts here at a price that will be compeditive with international internet stores?
answer) I beleive so, post #161 shows buying large numbers (i thought that was bulk, but your definition seems to differ) from one of the international sites and reselling the parts here could be compeditive (gst and local postage taken into account).
3) That works on paper now, but the dollar is strong, what happens when it goes down.
answer) It becomes less viable, maybe not viable at all.
4) Can it be made more viable?
answer) yes, buy from the people who sell to such international internet sites, I have already found info on the wholeseller to wemoto.com, and they do international shipping, and sound like in small enough quantities too.
5) How hard is it to get the dealer status needed to buy from them? and what is the discount rates likely to be?
answer) dunno about the first one, but I would assume for a site servicing the whole of NZ (only those that do internet orders though) wouldn't be too difficult. And I assume the discount rates are enough to enable a profit on the parts after resale (otherwise how would wemoto survive).

So they are currently my thoughts, your take on them?

Someone is currently trying it, on a limited scale. Some of the items are not directly from the manufacturers as they wont allow him to buy direct. Thats good because he is otherwise leaching off the profile created by the legitimate distributors.
The best answer is try for yourself

[Robert Taylor]

I surrender. I fucken give up! All you in the trade have beaten me in to submission with your lack of willingness to look at things in a different light. By refusing to allow bikers just to throw ideas around. By being stubborn, pigheaded, lacking of humour, grey and not accepting that maybe, just maybe there is another way. Maybe there is no other way. Maybe you are right. But shit, why then spend hundreds of posts trying to state the obvious? By winning this debate you have actually lost. But I have already figured out that you will never see that. So I will leave you in your misery.

This thread was never about telling you in the trade that you do not know what you are doing. The ones of you who have been in business for years clearly know heaps. But fuck are you a negative bunch!

Peace!

Thats unfair, not all of us are unwilling and I would substitute the word negative ( for the most part ) with realistic, or realistic expectations within sensible financial constraints.

We are all consumers as well of other products, I personally hate the Harvey Normans of this world as you are for the most part not dealing with specialists, just people who have done slick sales courses

[bogan]

I surrender. I fucken give up! All you in the trade have beaten me in to submission with your lack of willingness to look at things in a different light. By refusing to allow bikers just to throw ideas around. By being stubborn, pigheaded, lacking of humour, grey and not accepting that maybe, just maybe there is another way. Maybe there is no other way. Maybe you are right. But shit, why then spend hundreds of posts trying to state the obvious? By winning this debate you have actually lost. But I have already figured out that you will never see that. So I will leave you in your misery.

This thread was never about telling you in the trade that you do not know what you are doing. The ones of you who have been in business for years clearly know heaps. But fuck are you a negative bunch!

Peace!

sorry if i've contributed to this, as it does take two to argue and I was the second.

Someone is currently trying it, on a limited scale. Some of the items are not directly from the manufacturers as they wont allow him to buy direct. Thats good because he is otherwise leaching off the profile created by the legitimate distributors.
The best answer is try for yourself

So in absence of of any disagreement with the above points I take it you agree it may be possible to do as suggested. And who is trying it on a limited scale? I'd be interested to see what they are doing.

[sidecar bob]

F.F.S Could you just hurry up & start the bloody company yourself instead of trying to gamble other peoples money!
Realistcaly, any business is just a bloke looking for maximum return on his dollar with the skills god gave him.

I surrender. I fucken give up! All you in the trade have beaten me in to submission with your lack of willingness to look at things in a different light. By refusing to allow bikers just to throw ideas around. By being stubborn, pigheaded, lacking of humour, grey and not accepting that maybe, just maybe there is another way. Maybe there is no other way. Maybe you are right. But shit, why then spend hundreds of posts trying to state the obvious? By winning this debate you have actually lost. But I have already figured out that you will never see that. So I will leave you in your misery.

This thread was never about telling you in the trade that you do not know what you are doing. The ones of you who have been in business for years clearly know heaps. But fuck are you a negative bunch!

Peace!

[Brian d marge]

[QUOTE=Katman;1129713781

How about........when you ask to pay a job off, you don't expect $20 a week (or a really big bag of weed) to cut it.
.[/QUOTE]

How big is the bag?

Actually i have sat down many many many times in order to figure out what is going to happen with the bike trade

What I would like is a cross over product ( cars bikes ,,,horse drawn shopping trolleys )

One of the things I keep coming back to is providing , helping the customer get his or her jollies ,,,,via a motorbike

providing the total package , from training , to events to mx , a small workshop which can outsource , I m sure someone such as Mr Taylor could set up and renew a set of suspenders based on information supplied , and do a better Job

Specialization?

24hr breakdown with in a certain area

bike pick up when owner has had a few ( for loyal customers)

Dealers evenings at the indoor minimoto track

Shes a tough question this one , but one thing is for sure , the INTERNET has been around for only 15 years and has changed the game

Stephen

[avgas]

Peace!

Love and disrespect.......

I miss that guy now

[Scorp]

see post #161, its bulk freighting which is competitive as well as bulk buying.

Do you really think that bulk freighting product from the US to NZ then selling it back via the internet to individuals in the US is going to incur lower or similar operational costs to bulk buying/stocking and distributing within the US?

[Ixion]

F.F.S Could you just hurry up & start the bloody company yourself instead of trying to gamble other peoples money!
Realistcaly, any business is just a bloke looking for maximum return on his dollar with the skills god gave him.

Y'see, the thing is, it doesn't really matter to us . Once, businesses could get away with the 'we've always done it that way and if you don't like it, tough' . But the world has changed. If every bike shop in the country closed up, it wouldn't really bother me. Only thing I can't get over the net is tyres. There several places do bike tyres. Sorted.

Bike shops can carry on the way they always have. If they can make a decent living from it, good on them. If not, they'll go broke in time. Doesn't bother me either way. I used to feel bad about sourcing over the net, ought to support local etc. Now I don't

[bogan]

Do you really think that bulk freighting product from the US to NZ then selling it back via the internet to individuals in the US is going to incur lower or similar operational costs to bulk buying/stocking and distributing within the US?

What the? why would it be sold back to the US, buy from US (well UK in my example) freight heaps of parts together to NZ, then sell in NZ and post out to customers (in NZ)

[dipshit]

That works out to $580NZD.

It certainly sounds like Suzuki NZ have some explaining to do.

I would imagine something along the lines of... "We give our bikes away in the cornflakes packet so don't make much money on them. We make our money by ripping people off on parts and bullshitting our customers into believing they need to have the services done at authorised Suzuki dealers with their new bikes"



Such an 1980' way of doing business.

[hmmmnz]

what i want out of a bike shop is.

parts department....
1. the ability of the monkey behind the counter to use a fiche and order correct parts first time. i can do it, why can't they
2. some one who is willing to actually look up on the parts fiche, instead of saying (and i quote) "its not worth my time to look, get me the part number and i'll order it for you"
3. the parts person not to question my intelligence about a bike i own, i know what year it is, despite your computer telling you something different.

sales....
1. the guys jsut to have a passion and actually ride bikes,
2. not look down their nose at you because their bike is.. bigger, newer, faster, cooler than yours
3. actually help you, when you want help,

service...
1. do the job right the first time, and if they fuck it up admit it, and remedy the problem
2. have a place to chill while you wait for your bike, with bike related mags, dvd's playing, free coffee and tea
3. offer advice when someone has a problem, us kiwis like to give it a go ourselves first, we'll happily buy other stuff from the shop and recommend said shop to other people, even if we don't take our bikes in to get serviced by you.

thats what i want out of a bike shop, im yet to go to one which ticks even half the boxes.
im happy to pay more for parts than what i can get over the internet, if the service is worth it, so far its just fuck up after fuck up from all the bike shops ive got parts from

[PeeJay]

What flipping shower did you come down in???????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Manufacturers do not just sell to everyone, they want a proper distribution network in each country.

Non profit???????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why is making a profit such a dirty thing???!!!! ( fair and reasonable ) In case you hadnt noticed businesses need to make a profit to stay afloat, to pay tax. Tax makes Governments run so they can run essential infrastructure, etc ad infinitum.

Most or all industries that provide transport and leisure activities have to run as a proper business.

I just cant believe what you have posted. Ive certainly negotiated the forest much better than you clearly have

touchee touchee
While originally not meant to be taken literally, on second thoughts why not?
One of the original drivers for wholesalers was the efficient distribution of goods and the efficient movement of money to pay for these goods. Both activities being labour intensive.
A lot has changed over the years.
Today paying for goods is fully automated, and modern warehouses are full of robots doing the picking and packing. Transport isnt a problem. So there is no real barrier to individuals or retail shops ordering direct from the factory.
Except old codgers who keep bumping into trees