The chance of a lifetime: You are asked to start a bike shop. How should it be done?

[bogan]

All that's happening here is that perfectly valid questions are being asked about the idea - questions that, if the proponents of the idea can't come up with equally valid answers, are going to see them sorely disappointed and out of pocket if they enter into it half-cocked.

I don't consider "you're naive and I know wayyy more" to be a perfectly valid question, do you?

as Robert said above, its hard to sit here and read your friends and people you have worked with for decades being attacked by people that do not provide the same level of imformation about themselves, that they have on the people they are attacking,

I agree, that would be hard, but nobody is attacking anyone, floating ideas is not an attack on the industry. I mean, unless those ideas are likely to work it's not going to change anything is it? Also the nay-sayers were asked to stay out of it for now (numerous times) so I'm not sure what their motivation is for continuing to say nay?

[Katman]

I don't consider "you're naive and I know wayyy more" to be a perfectly valid question, do you?

For a start "you're naive and I know wayyy more" isn't a question.

But if in fact it's true, then it's a perfectly valid statement.

[bogan]

For a start "you're naive and I know wayyy more" isn't a question.

But if in fact it's true, then it's a perfectly valid statement.

indeed, but even if right it contributes nothing to a discussion.

For those who are so sure they are right, if you can't justify your position to others, should you be so sure?

[Scorp]

Well Scorp I only worked in the top south island kawasaki business for a few years and spent time in one of the more sucessful Suzuki dealerships too so my attitude comes from seeing the exact goings on that happen away from the public eye

And to add I've got a business management diploma as well

Cool. I've worked in a wide variety of businesses and have a business degree and a diploma in direct marketing. And in that time I've learned that if you own your own business, and it doesn't make enough profit for you to line your pockets, that a). you're wasting your time, and b). you'll quickly go out of business. I'm surprised this hasn't occurred to you too. I agree, that becoming too set in your ways can be bad for business, but not as bad as ignoring the imperative of turning a profit. Profit is king.

[Katman]

indeed, but even if right it contributes nothing to a discussion.

If it makes someone sit back and think "Shit, maybe I need to re-think my ideas and figures" and saves that person from making fundamental (and potentially disastrous) mistakes, then I think it's highly constructive.

[bogan]

If it makes someone sit back and think "Shit, maybe I need to re-think my ideas and figures" and saves that person from making fundamental (and potentially disastrous) mistakes, then I think it's highly constructive.

ok, I can agree with that, for the first time it is said, anthing else is just a waste. And it's a lot more helpful to say, your figures are wrong there cos blah blah blah etc

[Katman]

And it's a lot more helpful to say, your figures are wrong there cos blah blah blah etc

Post #259 was placed there to give you something to think about.

But that's not what you want, is it?

You want someone to hand you all the answers on a platter.

If only running your own business was that simple.

[R-Soul]

I think what bogan is trying to say, and what conquiztador started this thread for, was to brainstorm for ideas for the perfect bike shop - from the customers point of view.

Now I appreciate that customers replying to this thread and giving their iodeas will not always be aware of teh ins and outs and limitations of the industry. and I appreciate thatas experienced industry people, you would like to fill in this knowledge for them.

But in doing so, you are doing yourself a disservice. The purpose of a brainstorm is to throw the largest, wildest ideas out there, as improbable and stupid as they may seem, and get the most points of view that you can. Introducing reality into this scenario makes the environment hostile, and prevents ideas being thrown out.

Experience and training is not a pre-requesite for creativity. and creativity is all that we were loking for in this thread.

Yes, most of teh ideas could be rubbish, but maybe, just maybe, they could spark a train of thought that lends itself to being implemented in a realistic way, and which could be useful to you industry guys. So bite your lips for a second and just listen. Let the imaginations run wild. So what if most of them are deluded. Let them be. And then ponder over the results, and take what you think is useful from it. This thread is, after all, a tool for you guys to be able to gauge opinion and get ideas form. Dont limit it.


And by the same measures to the guys giving ideas: Give the ideas as a stated layout of your biking nirvana. Not as an attack on the current industry. The current industry wants to do everything it can that is economically feasible to make teh experience better for you in order to sell more to you. That is what their job is. If there are better ways, they have either tried nfeasible ways of implementing it before, or have not thought of it- hence this is why the thread is here.

I have mentioned in a past thread that bike shops should review what it is they are selling. I belive that it is a passion, a lifestyle and a sense of brotherhood. Not spares. Spares and parts and accessories I can get from trademe or the Net. I want to go to a shop where I feel like I am part of a passionate lifestyle and where I "belong", and can immerse myself in "bike accessory porn'.

I encourage shops to look at points of differentiation with the Net. Net beats them on price, no doubt. But shops offer benefits in that
- they offer excitement
- they offer sizing
- they offer advice
- they offer the personal relationshiop (if the sales person BOTHERS to try and establish one - not difficult since you both have a common passion)
- they have the abilty to upsell - i.e.introduce the possibility of selling related goods as well) if the salespersons are trained correctly (a critical factor in shops competing with the Net - God knows how Dick Smiths survives since their sales people are useless- probably because they do offer advice for technically challenged people once you have actually got their attention).
-local location- convenience for pick up - immediate availability

I have another idea for a business model that has probably already been done, but not to this extent: To limit the parts and gear that is stocked to ONLY that stuff that is good quality and that sells REALLY fast. Low turnover time. Because less gear is kept in stock, the cost of stockholding is reduced, and the savings can be passed onto customers. Customers will soon learn that Shop X offers the best prices on good quality gear. Other (slow selling) accessories can be stocked by other specialist shops, but for the bread and butter high turnover gear, go there.

To an extent this is competing with the Net on price (and will probably lose), but still offers the differentiators of sizing and technical advice. Of course cusptomers can get the advice, and then go order on the net anyway..

another idea: Run a Net business as well - reduce prices for those ordering online to compete with other online businesses, but offer pick up service only - this reduces perceived prices further, and has the effect of allowing good sales persons to upsell when the customer comes in to pickup goods.

Use it, dont use it....

[Tony.OK]

Let the imaginations run wild. So what if most of them are deluded. Let them be..

Ok............my perfect shop would be one that sponsors me to race and they pay for everything

Too much imagination?.............how about they sell at cost or slightly below......

Thats my perfect shop hahaa!!

[bogan]

.....

Yup that sums up what I was trying to get across

Post #259 was placed there to give you something to think about.

But that's not what you want, is it?

You want someone to hand you all the answers on a platter.

If only running your own business was that simple.

It was read, thought about, and replied to, the idea I was talking about does not fit your business model, that makes it different, and not necessarily wrong. Scorp compared the idea to that of Fishpond, which sounds like its doing well, the products and customers are bikers, but the model is the same as for books. You state that in order to maintain a business the overheads would outweigh the profits, I agree in a bike shop they would, but an internet business I think would be fine, your experience in the bike shop perhaps puts you at a disadvantage when evaluating a different kind of business model.

[Katman]

I'll be the first to admit that my opening post in this thread would be lucky to score a 1 out of 10 for constructiveness (and even then, only because there were no spelling mistakes).

But this thread has moved on from offering ideas on how bike shops can offer a better level of service to attacking them on the price of their parts, clothing and accessories.

Let me say again, the pricing of the items that a bike shop sells is the one area that they don't deserve to be condemned for. The likes of Suzuki NZ, Triumph NZ, Bluewing Honda etc are the ones who should be coming under close scrutiny in that respect.

[avgas]

For anyone setting up a new business, one of the first things you should do is examine in detail the way your chosen market operates - both to learn the way it works, and to find gaps and inefficiencies you can exploit.

I used to follow this. But not only is this wrong - its is detrimental to business.
It is not the first thing. It has to happen CONSISTANTLY through operations.
Simply copying what the market competitors will get you no where but market value. It is not a growth strategy - and when the market changes it becomes a decay strategy. PLC in motorcycles is long. But the market has shifted.
This is not the dark ages where you had to go to the 1 motorbike shop in town and buy at what price they dictated.
The customers have spoken, and while most of their requests are unrealistic - a good 2% are viable. The players that integrate that 2% into their systems will reap the market shift.
No one is asking the world of motorcycles to revolve around the consumer - just to change a small percentage of their model to suit their needs.

[sidecar bob]

Post #259 was placed there to give you something to think about.

But that's not what you want, is it?

You want someone to hand you all the answers on a platter.

If only running your own business was that simple.

They dont want some constructive advice to save them from their own stupidity, they want to tell us what a bunch of stupid blind old fogies we are. Thats why several posts ago, I started to actively encourage these experts to put their money where their mouths are & get on with it.
I think FAB is a great idea & the brainchildren of it should crack on ASAP with getting it off the ground, I mean, look at Sam Morgan, the brains behind Trademe. Youse fullas could be the next him.

[bogan]

I'll be the first to admit that my opening post in this thread would be lucky to score a 1 out of 10 for constructiveness (and even then, only because there were no spelling mistakes).

But this thread has moved on from offering ideas on how bike shops can offer a better level of service to attacking them on the price of their parts, clothing and accessories.

Let me say again, the pricing of the items that a bike shop sells is the one area that they don't deserve to be condemned for. The likes of Suzuki NZ, Triumph NZ, Bluewing Honda etc are the ones who should be coming under close scrutiny in that respect.

I'm sorry if any of my posts seemed to condemn the dealers for their prices, I only recall saying I can get them cheaper internationally so will do so, never stating it was the dealers fault. If there are unreasonable markups in the above company's what can be done about it? I assume all bike shops in NZ deal with a limited number of wholesalers (also in NZ), which sounds like monopoly, will customers buying parts from overseas instead of locally alert these wholesalers to their folly and improve the market for all?

[Smifffy]

A few random thoughts, since I haven't been able to keep up with the thread as it evolved:

1. It seems this thread started out as a "I dream of the perfect motorcycle shop, and it looks like this"
2. Some chose to crush the dream, and point out that people were dreamers
3. The dreamers were keen to take the dream from dream to plan/goals, but got a little lost/tied up with the harsh realities of doing business in the socialist republic of unzud
4. Somehow it appears that the thread has become the frontline in the battle between those who bemoan the industry, and those who bemoan the fact that people ordering from offshore are killing the industry
5. The industry does not have to change, nor do the consumers. Each can continue to do their own thing, and evolution will decide the final outcome, maybe there will be no winners.

I guess it will be interesting to see in the future how many posts that celebrate the receipt and fitment of exhausts, shocks, custom bits, engine parts from offshore are also replied to by industry types pointing out that this is killing the local industry. Of course if you import your own parts and it all goes horribly wrong then neener neener!

I've been looking at getting some blingy bits, with 3 items in particular in mind. One of those items is available in NZ, and through a bricks & Mortar motorcycle shop's tardme store at a very competitive rate vs what I can get it for from overseas. The other 2 items I haven't been able to source locally yet. Still not sure if I want the hassle of getting them shipped.