Police killing us again!

[terbang]

+10. Years ago whilst out test riding a Z1R Kawasaki, I went through a stop sign I hadn't seen and buried it into the side of a car at around 120kph. It fucking near cut the car in half!

The damage done to the rear of the police car was nothing compared to what I did to one. Different cars etc I know...but still...

Exactly what I was thinking. I slammed into the side of an HQ holden at around 50Kliks on an old RD350 and did way more damage than what I saw in the pikkies of that cop car.

[Katman]

I agree, except the view that most have of motorcyclists. Sadly a lot see us as a lower form of life and are very quick to condemn us.

And when they see us trying to avoid any form of acceptance of personal responsibility, and trying to lay total blame on someone else, our credibility turns to shit.

(Something that BRONZ needs to give serious consideration to).

[monkeymcbean]

NOW is a very good time, as a motorcycling community to get very assertive about our place, right on the road.

This goes for wire rope barriers as well, how dare we even as a minority road user group have to put up with these sort of barriers that can be modified for our safety as well....fuck(excuse the language) transit to.

How dare we put up with law enforcement who should know better than pull a dangerous move like this tragic accident, that is the dumb of dumbness.

[terbang]

And when they see us trying to avoid any form of acceptance of personal responsibility, and trying to lay total blame on someone else, our credibility turns to shit.

Mate I don't really see a lot here not accepting that there is personal responsibility in any rider in any accident.
However I do see a lot of justifiable anger over an accident following a definite trend that those who are supposed to promote road safety, apparently completely disregard it during the "heat of the chase". That's what this thread is mainly about.

[candor]

I think it's heinous discussing the victims speed - shows the brainwashing of the speed kills campaign. Even this tragedy they are using to maximise anti speed soundbytes. So what public health message is that - go slow as because you never know if a cop hiding ahead to revenue rake just may u-turn!!!!!
If he was at legal speed or not he was still likely a goner. He was clearly a skilled rider in proper safety gear and a few k's difference likely wouldn't allow collision avoidance given visibility range. 40k can be fatal on the wrong angle. In fact, the first road death in the 1890s was a pedestrian hit by someone described as speeding recklessly at 5mph.

[duckonin]

in NZ there is a mentality when some motorists use the road, of "there's very little chance of something coming the other way".
I have been in a car which was a short ride, where the owner driver was cutting blind corners, on completely the wrong side of the road.
It was the scariest car ride Ive ever had.
He has been driving for 6 years since that day, and still continues with the same attitude. He comes from an extremely rural area, the kind where people get drunk at the local, then can go do burnouts or have drags in the middle of the night on a main coastal highway!.
I bet you all know a place in the country like that.
The difference now is, he is living in Auckland. One day this lazy attitude to driving will catch up to him.
Unfortunately, and to give his ignorance credit, it will also catch up to some unsuspecting innocent person or family too.
Notice this tragedy was in a rural setting also. The coppers seem to have developed the same lazy driving approach "Im not in a major city, so theres very little chance of something coming the other way".
Well, something did.

Yep it is called 'Russian Roulett', it only takes 'one' to do the job

[Pixie]

Most Police cars are not traffic cars. So please don't assume that every cop car is driven by someone who cares about the traffic rules. Most are driven by someone thinking about the next damn domestic, the next shoplifter, the next burglary or the next stolen car.

If they are not thinking about their driving,they need to travel by bus.

[Pixie]

Stupid question,why such a song and dance when a cop fucks up and nothing about when anyone else does,truck drivers/elderly/young people blah blah blah.All this crap about "there supposed to know better/there supposed to guide us "wtf,If motorcyclists on here cared as much about stupid driving and needless deaths as they profess to on here then every time any motorist fucks up and a motorcyclist dies there would be an uproar,they dont.

They are "trained Police drivers" (cue Edna Krabappel's "Hah")
"Motorists" (in NZ) got their licenses in a cornies box.

[meteor]

No question, not a clever place to turn around thats a given. I'm no mathmetician or crash analyst but how far would a rider need to scrub off speed to make a collision either survivable or for a skilled rider avoidable? Has any facts been released yet on the actual distance from line of sight on the other side of the crest to where the impact occured? And one thing I'm still confused about is if, and it's a big if, the rider recognised/knew the ute driver and was trying to catch up AND what that neighbour says is true....Think I'll put off joining the lynch mob til some facts are in. Whatever the facts are, the only sure thing is that this was an avoidable tragedy. . RIP to the rider.

[bogan]

No question, not a clever place to turn around thats a given. I'm no mathmetician or crash analyst but how far would a rider need to scrub off speed to make a collision either survivable or for a skilled rider avoidable? Has any facts been released yet on the actual distance from line of sight on the other side of the crest to where the impact occured? And one thing I'm still confused about is if, and it's a big if, the rider recognised/knew the ute driver and was trying to catch up AND what that neighbour says is true....Think I'll put off joining the lynch mob til some facts are in. Whatever the facts are, the only sure thing is that this was an avoidable tragedy. . RIP to the rider.

Thats dependant on a number of factors, speed obviously, and survivable is not a number, you can fall badly at very low speed and not survive. Something only the crash forensics will know the full story of is my guess, and I'm hoping its not hushed up. As somebody said earlier, its odd the guy made no mention of hearing the ute doing 154kmhr, but the bike sounded like it was speeding, sounds like some knob just wanted to get on the telly. And surely if they though the rider knew the ute driver they would have been able to have a chat with hiim by now? that sounds like poor journalism on the harolds part.

[Pixie]

Actually, yes!
Your ears are surprisingly effective in this situation, especially at detecting frequency change. It's one of the reasons we enjoy music.

A little test that you might like to try.................r
Go out into your back yard and listen to the traffic going past your front gate, i.e. put yourself in a set of circumstances that you are well used to.
Because it's the frequency CHANGE that matters, you will find that you can easily pick any vehicle that is grossly outside the norm of the speed going past your gate.
Please, don't take my word for it - go and check it out for yourself.

You're assuming the bike went past his place.If it didn't there would be no detectable doppler shift.

[rachprice]

This immediately begs the question as to whether the Police should be held to higher standards than Joe Public. There is a logical case that it should be so.



Actually, you can do exactly that! I have used the sonic doppler shift for speed measurements and it's surprisingly accurate. Note that it's not the exhaust note that matters - it's the change in the note as the emitter goes past.
It is not difficult to tell when the sound source is grossly exceeding a speed that one is accustomed to hearing

I meant by ear.....
I doubt he would be accurate

[SMOKEU]

Such bullshit!
The cops recently caught a gang of 5 bank and jewelery store robbers.No chase was involved,just investigation and early morning visits to where the crims lived.

As for: "It's still not the cops fault for killing someone unless the police vehicle has a collision with another vehicle." - If I goad psych patients into jumping off tall buildings,am I in anyway responsible for their deaths?

That's just luck - if a gang of people robbed a bank wearing balaclavas or full face masks, and jumped into their get away vehicle, then if the cops don't give chase if they see the bank robbers, then there is a very slim chance of them getting snapped.

As for the psych patients, everyone is responsible for their own actions. I'm sick of hearing "my mum was an alcoholic and my dad was a p addict so that gives me the right to kill people". In other words, in that situation it won't be you that's responsible, it would be the psych patients fault for jumping off the building. Just because someone is fucked in the head it doesn't give them the right to do anything that I wouldn't be allowed to do.

[Ixion]

Stuff today adds a new datum. They state that the rider was catapulted seven metres.

Now, I've done a bit of aerial motorcycling in my day. Firstly, a 7 metre flight is bugger all. It implies a definately low impact speed. Maybe 40kph, something like that.(Yes , that's a pure guess, but based on experience, and we're probably not going to see any honest figures based on anything more solid) . Certainly no way 150+ kph. Of course , that's after braking, if he did. But he had only 50 or 60 metres to brake , and perception time on top of it, he couldn't have scrubbed off from 150kph to a 7 metre flight impact speed in that distance. I'm sure there are others here who have flown a lot further than that (7 metres is the width of the road).

Secondly, a 7 metre flight would normally be very surviveable. Mostly just bruises. So he was very unlucky

Thirdly, a 7 metre flight fits with the panel damage to the car. that looks like a 30 or 40 kph impact damage to me. But it doesn't fit with shunting a heavy car right round through 135 degrees. An impact that would do that, you'd fly way way more than 7 metres.

[pete376403]

...and of course only reason why Mr.Wilkin is mentioned as motor racer is to give some credibility to his "expert" opinion. I get the feeling media is trying to taint this whole "unbiased" investigation yet again.

"Mr Wilkin said ...The back of the police vehicle was "virtually torn off". (Herald) Comparing this statement with the picture of the car suggests to me that Mr Wilkin is not a reliable witness.