Dear Mr English, I don't want a tax cut

**MisterD** · 18th May 2010, 08:43

Originally Posted by shrub

I see living in a civil society something that I am willing to pay for, and if we live in a world where we can't afford to buy the essentials of a decent civil society I see no reason to pay less. But then I have always believed that life is about paying your way and taking responsibility for your own results. I want to live in a world that is better than the one we live in now, and I'm happy to contribute to that as opposed to just moaning about it.

I see we're mostly in agreement then - I just happen to believe that big-government tax, borrow and spend type policy undermines peoples' ability to take responsibility...

The view from the likes of the Stranded that the "rich" (anyone who earns more than 70K!) have a responsibility to society to pay high taxes, whereas there appears to be no expectation of any responsibility to society from those who are net recipients.

**scott411** · 18th May 2010, 08:48

Originally Posted by Deano

I don't know what an LAQC is but I know of a family business that pays the wife $20k of her husbands salary to reduce his tax burden.
Oh, she works for it though - about an hour a week doing paperwork. They will be millionaires like the husbands father and his father before him that started the business.

I'm not begrudging them for being successful, but the wife's salary is just a legal rort.

but then benefits are reduced as well, if the husband has an accident the payoput will be less the 20k per annum as well,

this is where a flat tax is better, under this system the wifes earnings would be taxed at the same rate anyway,

then there is the whole income splitting debate as well, which would make it easier for wage earners to do the same thing as business owners,

**Swoop** · 18th May 2010, 09:03

Originally Posted by schrodingers cat

Some government policies to generate some wealth (ie manufacturing) and keep it churning in this country rather than disappearing offshore would be a good start. That would create a few more jobs.

The starting point would have to be the trains built in Dunedin. Fairly close in pricing, but instead of being made in China *cringe* they have an opportunity to employ staff and create a local base for future maintenance.

Originally Posted by spajohn

That doesn't describe any of the government departments I've worked with in Wellington. One in particular sent 6, I repeat 6, contractors to watch 1 of our staff be instructed on how to answer an 0800 line for them. Naturally I can't name names, but quite frankly the government department bloat is unacceptable and go National with axing them!

No! We have been informed in this thread, that gubbinment departments are well run and can be competitive with private industry...

Nine years of public servants bloating out their empires' really needs to be slashed back.

**shrub** · 18th May 2010, 09:39

Originally Posted by MisterD

I see we're mostly in agreement then - I just happen to believe that big-government tax, borrow and spend type policy undermines peoples' ability to take responsibility...

The view from the likes of the Stranded that the "rich" (anyone who earns more than 70K!) have a responsibility to society to pay high taxes, whereas there appears to be no expectation of any responsibility to society from those who are net recipients.

I also believe that there is no such thing as equality. I have 3 university degrees, am white, male and tall; therefore i can pretty well do and have whatever I want, but what about the people who don't have the intellect to gain the education I have? Or who aren't white and male (and yes, that makes a statistically provable difference)? I was dealt a good hand in life, and I'm quite happy to pay a bit more in taxes to ensure that the society I live in is a good one, and don't see why I can't contribute more to the common good than the guy who will never earn much more than the minimum wage.

I am probably something of an enigma in the modern "me, me, me" world in that one of the metrics I use to measure my wealth is in the quality of the society i live in. In other words, the worse off people around me are, then the less successful I believe I am, but sadly we have been trained to believe in the "every man for himself" dogma that I am certain will ultimately cripple our civilsation.

And what is "big government"? It's a catchphrase of the new right, but like "politial correctness" nobody seems to really know what it means, or what is a viable alternative to any of the tentative definitions I see being used.

**Pixie** · 18th May 2010, 09:46

Originally Posted by mashman

Example: A banker in the UK was dismissed for losing 24 billion pounds... yet he will retire on 671,000 pounds per year... who pays for that? those who pay taxes... and I bet he isn't one of them...

That's your kids and mine paying for this... it's utter bullshit... you're either trolling or don't give a fuck.

If the banker is in England why are we paying his pension?
I doubt the English tax payer provides 671,000 pound pensions either,for that matter

**shrub** · 18th May 2010, 09:46

Originally Posted by Swoop

The starting point would have to be the trains built in Dunedin. Fairly close in pricing, but instead of being made in China *cringe* they have an opportunity to employ staff and create a local base for future maintenance.

But if we can save a few million dollars by getting them made in China, that is what must be done. Remember, we live in a world run by accountants where cost is more important than value, and building trains here only has long term benefits and nobody is interested in long term these days.

**Swoop** · 18th May 2010, 09:52

Originally Posted by shrub

But if we can save a few million dollars by getting them made in China, that is what must be done. ... building trains here only has long term benefits and nobody is interested in long term these days.

That makes sense. Getting shit made in china guarantees that it will not last for very long.

**shrub** · 18th May 2010, 09:56

Originally Posted by Swoop

That makes sense. Getting shit made in china guarantees that it will not last for very long.

And we luffs the Chinese long time. We will buy anything they want us to buy and they can in turn buy our stuff at whatever price they want - the good Ms Clark made sure of that.

**Tank** · 18th May 2010, 10:05

Originally Posted by rainman

but by means of increasing my income. I'm earning such a little amount at the mo I doubt I'll need to pay tax at all.

.......

Anyway, I've never met a person earning more than say $200k who was worth a knob of goat shit as a manager.

Something that never ceases to amaze me is that the people who earn "the least" (Not specifically Rainman - there are plenty of others on here) know so much about executive management that they actually understand the requirements / deliverables etc of the job to an extent that they can make a full and informed critique of the person and the role - despite them obviously not being in a position to hold a role of that caliber themselves.

FFS - thats like me sitting here pointing out where Rossi is getting in wrong.

**Tank** · 18th May 2010, 10:07

Originally Posted by mashman

but we need the rich people apparantly... the prime minister of the UK said so and so does the prime minister of NZ... they can't noth be wrong... they bring so much to the economy... who's holding the calculator again?

Yeah - the country would be so much better off with 100% of people on benefit - what could possibly be wrong with that picture.

**Tank** · 18th May 2010, 10:11

10% of the population pay 76% of Tax. Despite the wingers saying all rich pricks dont pay tax - simply doesn't add up does it? If that was the case - NZ would have to survive on the 24% of tax that the 90% of the country provides.

The simple fact is that they are jealous and want more given to them - they dont actually believe that its fair that the 10% ONLY pay 76% - they want people to pay more - have it handed to them on a plate so they dont have to make the effort and sacrifice.

**scott411** · 18th May 2010, 10:40

Originally Posted by shrub

I also believe that there is no such thing as equality. I have 3 university degrees, am white, male and tall; therefore i can pretty well do and have whatever I want, but what about the people who don't have the intellect to gain the education I have? Or who aren't white and male (and yes, that makes a statistically provable difference)? I was dealt a good hand in life, and I'm quite happy to pay a bit more in taxes to ensure that the society I live in is a good one, and don't see why I can't contribute more to the common good than the guy who will never earn much more than the minimum wage.

I am probably something of an enigma in the modern "me, me, me" world in that one of the metrics I use to measure my wealth is in the quality of the society i live in. In other words, the worse off people around me are, then the less successful I believe I am, but sadly we have been trained to believe in the "every man for himself" dogma that I am certain will ultimately cripple our civilsation.

And what is "big government"? It's a catchphrase of the new right, but like "politial correctness" nobody seems to really know what it means, or what is a viable alternative to any of the tentative definitions I see being used.

the thing is you do contribute more, of every extra dollar you earn and spend you pay a percentage, but the defination of more and enough is different among people, if you feel that you want to give more there are plenty of organisations that help lower income or disadvantaged people, and as a per dollar return will help more than the goverment taxing you more,

**aprilia_RS250** · 18th May 2010, 11:25

Originally Posted by Pixie

If the banker is in England why are we paying his pension?
I doubt the English tax payer provides 671,000 pound pensions either,for that matter

i think you'll find there was no banker that lost 24b pounds. The storry would be huge news and there would be widespread panic.

Given Wikipedia is always correct you'll find the top place goes to Kerviel at SCG for a loss of EUR 5b on futures trading. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_trading_losses

Everyone, also remember to get your tax refunds this year!!!