Countersteering vs body leaning?

[bluebird]

Free your mind and your arse will follow. Works for me.

[Expert]

I watched one of stunt fellas the other day, that christian pshcieffer i think it was. anyway, he was riding around and around in very tight circleswith no hands on the bars, in fact he was dragging his inside glove along the ground. the bars were clearly not countersteering in fact they looked like they were on the inside lock.

Countersteering INITIATES the turn, body mass keeps it turning.
You weight the inside bar in a corner, that may feel like you are countersteering, but you are not.
To tighten up a turn you have to put positive input into the steering, you can initiate this with countersteering to make the bike fall into the corner, but you cannot maintain this throughout the turn, unless you are oversteering and the back wheel is rotating around the front.

Try getting round a right hand corner with the bars turned left all the way and see how far you get.

[MSTRS:Me]

"Expert" - you seem to misunderstand countersteering...
It is really only on a speedway solo that one could ride the way you suggest.
No - countersteering just initiates a turn and further application on the same side will tighten that turn (assuming that everything else was in 'balance'), or applied to the outside barend will straighten the bike up.

[Maha]

Just watch this.

[hellokitty]

That was good thanks!!!!!!! I knew I was doing it but I couldn't understand exactly how or what I was doing, so I thought hard about it while I was riding and realised I had been doing it all along but now I actually understand what I have been doing!

[Crisis management]

Wel done Maha, 11 pages of pedantic arquement and you clear it all up with 1 post.....my new Hero!

[bogan]

Wel done Maha, 11 pages of pedantic arquement and you clear it all up with 1 post.....my new Hero!

he didn't illustrate how the gyroscopic forces come into play though

[Maha]

Wel done Maha, 11 pages of pedantic arquement and you clear it all up with 1 post.....my new Hero!

84 opinions on one question!
So much gets lost in translation.

[R-Soul]

"Expert" - you seem to misunderstand countersteering...
It is really only on a speedway solo that one could ride the way you suggest.
No - countersteering just initiates a turn and further application on the same side will tighten that turn (assuming that everything else was in 'balance'), or applied to the outside barend will straighten the bike up.

Thats exactly what he said...

Use CS to get the bike to lean. Once leaned, you dont keep pushing on the bar. You can relax on them. To tighten up or straighten out, you push on bars again (on different sides of course)

[Chrislost]

The general consensus on Kiwi Biker is that the laws of physics don't apply to motorcycles and that there is no such thing as countersteering. The local genii have convinced themselves that it's their bum steering that gets the business done. Interestingly none have agreed to have a spot of weld attached to their steering heads in order to test these theories.

A spot weld would not work, as the bars need to turn for the bike to actually turn.
You can see this as your rolling down a large hill that appears on the ATNR, standing on the seat with arms outstretched. When you get to the corner at the bottom, still standing on the seat and look at the bars they actually turn onto the corner on their own accord.

A sports bike WOULD NOT TURN AT ALL with the bars fixed dead ahead

[schrodingers cat]

84 opinions on one question!
So much gets lost in translation.

I never gave a shit about countersteering - I was well aware of the desirability of pushing the bars in the 'opposite' direction momentarily to initiate the turn. I actually asked folks to describe the actions and timing of peg weighting during the turn. I had a couple of decent enough answers and one really excellent PM

I guess what I've learned on KB is that any post serves a primary function of airing ones predudice. If a question is answered that is purely secondary

Carry on

[cowpoos]

I watched one of stunt fellas the other day, that christian pshcieffer i think it was. anyway, he was riding around and around in very tight circleswith no hands on the bars, in fact he was dragging his inside glove along the ground. the bars were clearly not countersteering in fact they looked like they were on the inside lock.

he was going slow...at the point of falling over!!!

Not just talking to you expert.

But theres a whole heap of guys on hear try to say that just leaning and weight pegs turns a corner....and your all very very fucking wrong....with little understanding of physics.
YOU CAN NOT STEER A BIKE BY JUST LEANING!!!! YOU ALL FUCKING WRONG!!

[cowpoos]

A spot weld would not work, as the bars need to turn for the bike to actually turn.
You can see this as your rolling down a large hill that appears on the ATNR, standing on the seat with arms outstretched. When you get to the corner at the bottom, still standing on the seat and look at the bars they actually turn onto the corner on their own accord.

A sports bike WOULD NOT TURN AT ALL with the bars fixed dead ahead

Don't be dumb....going slow at the point of unstability is different to turning above that....seriously....some common sense dude, You usually smarter than this!!
Welding th bars will prove the point...and whos going to try it???? the bike will turn a tiny bit....only due to the tiny colapse on the side wall of the front tyre...proballe a 100-150 metre arch at 50kmph.

[bogan]

he was going slow...at the point of falling over!!!

Not just taking to you expert.

But theres a whole heap of guys on hear try to say that just leaning and weight pegs turns a corner....and your all very very fucking wrong....with little understanding of physics.
YOU CAN NOT STEER A BIKE BY JUST LEANING!!!! YOU ALL FUCKING WRONG!!

you may be getting the wrong end of the stick there, peg weighting and leaning (techniques) can steer bikes cos a result of those actions is a bar push/pull movement as well, which results in countersteering (physics), maybe thats what the people you are refering to were meaning?

[Urano]

I had a couple of decent enough answers and one really excellent PM

could i ask you, with the permission of the author of that pm, to share it with us?
there's always to learn from others and i'd really like to read good explanations and points of view...

if you all don't mind...