Inertia Active suspension systems.

[Bassmatt]

Came across this today, never heard of it before. http://store.ricorshocks.com/
Anybody have any experience or knowledge of this system, it sounds good but....
Robert what do you reckon?
Matt

[schrodingers cat]

This is the link with the clues to operation

http://store.ricorshocks.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=19

I don't really see the point of difference between this and any properly adjustable (piston, shim stack) damper.
Scarely active - traditionally reactive I would have thought

[dipshit]

Sounds like high and low speed compression damping to me. Low speed is the chassis movement and high speed is the wheel movement..???

[Squiggles]

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...tors-for-DR650

[schrodingers cat]

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...tors-for-DR650

One of the questions in the other thread is how they get away without drilling out the standard orifices in the damping rod. I won't go looking for it again but on one of the pages on their website they claim to get round it by using really light weight oil!
If that is the case how do control rebound?

[CookMySock]

It doesn't sound right to me. The inertia part is supposed to act at higher shaft speeds to relieve the valving - that's going to spike initially, until the inertia part can move.

Steve

[cowpoos]

Came across this today, never heard of it before. http://store.ricorshocks.com/
Anybody have any experience or knowledge of this system, it sounds good but....
Robert what do you reckon?
Matt

Its a gimmick...

[NordieBoy]

I won't go looking for it again but on one of the pages on their website they claim to get round it by using really light weight oil!
If that is the case how do control rebound?

By valving for the lighter oil?

[NordieBoy]

Its a gimmick...

But a gimmick that works very well.

I'll be getting Intiminators for the front of my DR400F when it's rebuilt.

I'd go for the rear DR650 shock as well but a gold valve is a fraction of the price.

If I wasn't paying for it, a Ricor IAS shock would be on my bike no question.

[NordieBoy]

Sounds like high and low speed compression damping to me. Low speed is the chassis movement and high speed is the wheel movement..???

Not quite.
There's no high/low speed seperation.
It separates out wheel and chassis movement.
Chassis movement is through the main valving and the faster/sharper the wheel movement the more the weighted valve lags behind the shaft movement and opens more orifices for lighter damping.

Most who have tried them on an adventure bike (badly suspended usually) wouldn't want to ride stock suspension ever again.

Off-road the front will flick up over a rock with light feeling damping but landing from a jump feels heavily damped.

I'm hooked on them. I drink Ricor coloured coolaid.

[CookMySock]

Most who have tried them on an adventure bike (badly suspended usually) wouldn't want to ride stock suspension ever again.

Thats an old trick though - anything at ALL with shims in it is going to be better than the factory damper rod forks. That doesn't mean the theory behind them is solid - it just means its better than damper rod forks, and ANYTHING is better than that!

Steve

[Robert Taylor]

Thats an old trick though - anything at ALL with shims in it is going to be better than the factory damper rod forks. That doesn't mean the theory behind them is solid - it just means its better than damper rod forks, and ANYTHING is better than that!

Steve

As long as the primary restriction is removed i.e. the standard oem damper rod holes.


Its easy for Nordieboy ( with all respect to him ) to make a blanket statement of how good they are on the basis of his DR650 experience. I dont for a moment disbelieve that they will work very well in that bike. But there are many variations of damper rods and many have ridiculously small holes in them that will choke off at relatively slow deflection velocities. And you cant always tune that issue out with thinner oil, as any honest suspension tuner will tell you.

Seriously I like the concept of an ''emulator with a deflective shim stack'', but the manufacturer needs to step back from the all too common Yankee hype. Although it would be a minefield its ideal if replacement damper rods are also made, processed to match the intimators ( or Race Tech emulators ) Exclude the Thai made copies, they truly are rubbish.
Stock damper rods are seldomn straight, seldom assemble concentrically in the fork tubes, are very poorly toleranced and have a lot of uncontrolled bleed. AS MUCH OF THE PROBLEM WITH DAMPER ROD FORKS IS THE DAMPER ROD ITSELF.
We prepare a lot of SV650 forks for Pro Twins racing inclusive of all the top placegetters. Without exception we also replace the damper rods at the same time as we fit ( modified Race Tech emulators ) We use Traxxion Dynamics damper rods, the tolerancing and assembly truth is way way better and that delivers more control. Intimators in combination with those rods may be an improvement again.

With respect to the shocks I have no doubt that they will work okay, but the ''inertia active'' label is pure marketing hype that so many Yankee companies are guilty of. Unless there is something I have missed they have pretty standard deflective shim stacks. If they are as good as people believe then theyd be used at MotoGP level and would be smoking everybody.

[NordieBoy]

Its easy for Nordieboy ( with all respect to him ) to make a blanket statement of how good they are on the basis of his DR650 experience. I dont for a moment disbelieve that they will work very well in that bike. But there are many variations of damper rods and many have ridiculously small holes in them that will choke off at relatively slow deflection velocities. And you cant always tune that issue out with thinner oil, as any honest suspension tuner will tell you.

Woohoo! Respect!

They make a huge difference on the DR's and KLR's I've ridden and the thing I like from the do-it-yourself perspective is you just drop them in and change to 5w oil. Whereas I took my XR forks to the local guru to get the damper rods drilled for the YSS PD valves. If you don't like them it's easy to swap back. Not many have though.

I don't know what other $300 suspension mod would have the same results.

When I rode my DR back to back with a KTM 640A they stacked up quite well. I'd rather have the WP's on the front of my bike though or a gold valved DRZ400 set but I'm cheap.

With respect to the shocks I have no doubt that they will work okay, but the ''inertia active'' label is pure marketing hype that so many Yankee companies are guilty of. Unless there is something I have missed they have pretty standard deflective shim stacks. If they are as good as people believe then theyd be used at MotoGP level and would be smoking everybody.

Yep. I think a truer label would be "Almost as good as a well tuned cartridge with compression and rebound adjustment but not high speed and low speed comp and rebound".

I think they've got the inertia valve in the shock too. I'd love to try one but would rather spend a lot less on a gold valve and tune for the existing shock.

[Robert Taylor]

Woohoo! Respect!

They make a huge difference on the DR's and KLR's I've ridden and the thing I like from the do-it-yourself perspective is you just drop them in and change to 5w oil. Whereas I took my XR forks to the local guru to get the damper rods drilled for the YSS PD valves. If you don't like them it's easy to swap back. Not many have though.

I don't know what other $300 suspension mod would have the same results.

When I rode my DR back to back with a KTM 640A they stacked up quite well. I'd rather have the WP's on the front of my bike though or a gold valved DRZ400 set but I'm cheap.


Yep. I think a truer label would be "Almost as good as a well tuned cartridge with compression and rebound adjustment but not high speed and low speed comp and rebound".

I think they've got the inertia valve in the shock too. I'd love to try one but would rather spend a lot less on a gold valve and tune for the existing shock.

Ill try some and let you know. But combined with damper rods that are straight, true, seal well, have adequate ( non restricting ) flow area and provide a seating surface for the valve bodies that is actually 100% perpendicular to the centre line of the fork tubes!

As a term of reference many Triumph forks ( damper rod type ) have VERY small cartridge holes. These would absolutely have to be drilled out as intiiminators or no intiminators, thin oil or no thin oil they are going to deliver terrible high speed bump compliance.

The other all too often overlooked trick with suspension is to minimise friction. There are some rather disgusting 3 lip orange / red coloured seals on the market that are being fitted by rather too many that have believed the marketing hype. They still do leak and the friction they have is horrendous. We absolutely refuse to fit them. Ditto for those cheap Race Tech emulator copies, as soon as the hard anodising wears through by spring rubbing chards of alloy will contaminate the oil and the DU fork bushings. We have also seen the poppet springs sack out.

Cheapness costs

[NordieBoy]

Ill try some and let you know. But combined with damper rods that are straight, true, seal well, have adequate ( non restricting ) flow area and provide a seating surface for the valve bodies that is actually 100% perpendicular to the centre line of the fork tubes!

Would be very interested to see what you think.