Interesting reading - speed limit tolerance

[scumdog]

God damn, are the people in charge really that fucking stupid?

I find it hard to believe they have reached the positions they have when that is the shit they come out with.

I'm also waiting for our resident cops to put their brains in gear, are they even capable anymore?

or is it a case of........baaaaaaa?

No.
It's baaaa humbug..

[Kickaha]

Only one fatal on the weekend so far looks like the new speed tolerance policy is working

[shrub]

Only one fatal on the weekend so far looks like the new speed tolerance policy is working

Maybe they should introduce a zero tolerance - it should start bringing dead people back to life.

Statistics is not that simple - there are numerous variables attached to traffic crashes, and changing one independent variable without looking at what's happening with every other variable means any correlations claimed are spurious. You might as well say "we have had extreme weather in the BOP this weekend, and the road toll has dropped, therefore the cause of high crash rates is the weather in the BOP". The weather has quite probably had some impact because a lot of people won't have gone anywhere so stayed off the road, but it's silly to claim it is the sole cause just as it's silly to claim that this decrease in tolerance is the sole cause. It may have stopped a few crashes, but it may also have caused others. A trained statistician would need to spend a hell of a lot of time analysing every piece of data before any causality could be assigned and changing policy (which is what will happen) is either silly or cynical.

[flyingcrocodile46]

Maybe they should introduce a zero tolerance - it should start bringing dead people back to life.

Statistics is not that simple - there are numerous variables attached to traffic crashes, and changing one independent variable without looking at what's happening with every other variable means any correlations claimed are spurious. You might as well say "we have had extreme weather in the BOP this weekend, and the road toll has dropped, therefore the cause of high crash rates is the weather in the BOP". The weather has quite probably had some impact because a lot of people won't have gone anywhere so stayed off the road, but it's silly to claim it is the sole cause just as it's silly to claim that this decrease in tolerance is the sole cause. It may have stopped a few crashes, but it may also have caused others. A trained statistician would need to spend a hell of a lot of time analysing every piece of data before any causality could be assigned and changing policy (which is what will happen) is either silly or cynical.

Very true. Total waste of time if not done right. Did anyone count the volume of traffic?... No! of course not

[shrub]

Very true. Total waste of time if not done right. Did anyone count the volume of traffic?... No! of course not

It's not a total waste of time if the objective of the exercise is to soften up the public so they're happy when Our Masters remove the 10 kmh speed tolerance.

I've noticed the propaganda ministry have been changing the speeding ads from guys going well over the speed limit to just over (the father taking his son to sports who gets pinged for 112 kmh) to the guy who is mindlessly driving his Corolla around town at speeds reaching (shock, horror!) 60 kmh, and if he'd been doing 50 he'd have been fine, but he wasn't...

Last year's road toll was outside of normal expectations for a number of reasons, but Our Masters won't mention that. Tonight Paula Rose and her controllers will crow delightedly that the strategy of dropping the tolerance saved the lives of ordinary New Zealanders, so will be "trialled" again (probably on another time period that had a higher than normal road toll last year), and the experiment will be declared to be unequivocally successful, meaning that "in our best interests" Our Masters will replace the 10 kmh buffer with a 5 kmh buffer. And the people will happily take their medicine and agree that it's a good thing the government is taking the road toll seriously.

It's called social engineering and it seems our new masters are as good at it as the last lot - maybe they took lessons?

[Kickaha]

Very true. Total waste of time if not done right. Did anyone count the volume of traffic?... No! of course not

Is it possible to get those figures along with fuel sales compared to same period last year?

[shrub]

Is it possible to get those figures along with fuel sales compared to same period last year?

Unlikely, but I might see what I can find through the university. Hopefully over the next couple of weeks I'm going to dig around and see what I can find on relationships between speed limit changes overseas and road crash rates. I understand that in the US when they lifted the double nickel speed limit the open road fatality rate dropped in many of tje states where they lifted the speed and increased or stayed the same where they left it at 55mph, and in Northern Territories the fatality rate on the open road rose when they imposed speed limits. But as I keep saying, correlation doesn't necessarily mean cause.

I have always maintained that urban speed limits are about right and need policing, but that the real problem lies in the low skill level of a high percentage of drivers; something that is evidenced by people tailgating, driving while doing something else, cutting corners, poor overtaking etc, and Our Masters have told the cops to police speed at the expense of anything else because it's easy.

[MSTRS:Me]

Only one fatal on the weekend so far looks like the new speed tolerance policy is working

So far.
And (say) next w/e when we are back to normal, 15 are killed...the pricks will be able to say "See, the 10kph tolerance kills people"
With faces made of Teflon, the egg just will not stick.

[Scuba_Steve]

the guy who is mindlessly driving his Corolla around town at speeds reaching (shock, horror!) 60 kmh, and if he'd been doing 50 he'd have been fine, but he wasn't...

God that add pisses me off, nothing about this add is accurate or correct, they make NO mention of the illegally & stupidly car parked on the corner nor the fact he steps out in front of this guy, nor do they mention that by going 50km/h the whole way he would have potentially hit either the cyclist (as he would have now been in the way) or the guy getting out of his car (as he would now be in the middle of the road). Then even the physics is wrong in respect to the cash, firstly curbs aren't easy to get up especially when sliding sideways, but then they take him straight across in the "60km/h" scene, whereas he was not only sliding sideways but also backwards & his trajectory would have meant the front of his bonnet hit the pole NOT him & thus by going 60km/h (as he did) he saved the lives of every other person in the add & himself. But then I guess it just all comes down to (as someone else likes to say) "never let facts get in the way of a good rant" (or propaganda add as the case is)

[scumdog]

God that add pisses me off, nothing about this add is accurate or correct, they make NO mention of the illegally & stupidly car parked on the corner nor the fact he steps out in front of this guy, nor do they mention that by going 50km/h the whole way he would have potentially hit either the cyclist (as he would have now been in the way) or the guy getting out of his car (as he would now be in the middle of the road). Then even the physics is wrong in respect to the cash, firstly curbs aren't easy to get up especially when sliding sideways, but then they take him straight across in the "60km/h" scene, whereas he was not only sliding sideways but also backwards & his trajectory would have meant the front of his bonnet hit the pole NOT him & thus by going 60km/h (as he did) he saved the lives of every other person in the add & himself. But then I guess it just all comes down to (as someone else likes to say) "never let facts get in the way of a good rant" (or propaganda add as the case is)

Hey, he was just driving in the manner of a lot of bozos out there, to them it's 'normal' - they're (in their mind) a 'good driver'.

[shrub]

Hey, he was just driving in the manner of a lot of bozos out there, to them it's 'normal' - they're (in their mind) a 'good driver'.

Precisely - he tailgates, he cuts corners and he isn't paying any attention to what he's doing, and when he needed to stop he slammed on his brakes and swerved, but the Propaganda Ministry don't mention any of those (the causes of the crash), instead focussing on how incredibly dangerous breaking the speed limit is, whereas if you stick to the speed limit you can drive like a retard and you'll be fine.

[MSTRS:Me]

Precisely - he tailgates, he cuts corners and he isn't paying any attention to what he's doing, and when he needed to stop he slammed on his brakes and swerved, but the Propaganda Ministry don't mention any of those (the causes of the crash), instead focussing on how incredibly dangerous breaking the speed limit is, whereas if you stick to the speed limit you can drive like a retard and you'll be fine.

You've hit the nail on the head.
The subliminal messages is where it's at. And none of them are condusive to 'good' driving. Is it any wonder that the standard is so poor, with the constant 're-inforcing' that ads like that give?

[shrub]

You've hit the nail on the head.
The subliminal messages is where it's at. And none of them are condusive to 'good' driving. Is it any wonder that the standard is so poor, with the constant 're-inforcing' that ads like that give?

We are told that obeying the speed limit = good driving which means the police don't have to anything more than police speeding and run a few booze buses to do their bit for road safety and Johnny Commodore and Mary Pajero don't need to actually know how to drive, as long as they're not speeding that's all they need to worry about.

[scumdog]

You've hit the nail on the head.
The subliminal messages is where it's at. And none of them are condusive to 'good' driving. Is it any wonder that the standard is so poor, with the constant 're-inforcing' that ads like that give?

If they can't keep their eye on their speedo there's a good chance they can't keep an eye on anything else they do on the road..or be aware of it. "Bad driver? not me!!"

[MSTRS:Me]

If they can't keep their eye on their speedo there's a good chance they can't keep an eye on anything else they do on the road..or be aware of it. "Bad driver? not me!!"

That ad shows a driver basically doing everything wrong. But speed is the only issue that is highligted. Ergo, speed is bad + everything else is fine.

A good driver (or rider) will be using the clues all around, including the occasional glance at the speedo, to travel at a safe, legal speed, whilst splitting their concentration on what is happening in front, to the side and to the rear. Allocating priority to where they'll be in 2/3 seconds including what else might be there too (but isn't, yet), then further out in diminishing importance.
In other words, being aware and ready to react if necessary, yet all at a speed which will not prove to be detrimental.