Why are cops beating speeding motorcyclists?

[flyingcrocodile46]

It's not a leaky building problem. It's a rotting building problem. All wooden buildings leak, sooner or later. Always have. Which is why ,for 50 years, anyone who knew which end of a hammer was which knew that you didn't use untreated pine .

Then some big corporate saw a chance for more profits, got the rules changed, and architects started specifying untreated pine.

Now the buildings are rotting. Gee, who'd have thought.

Not the chippies fault, they just follow what's on the plans. Ask, who made money out of using untreated pine

True but lets not forget the Green party who were pushing for untreated framing. The BIA advised government that the untreated timber would fail but they ignored it. The govt made it an acceptable solution that BCA's (councils) could not reject. They also allowed the use of direct fix fibre cement, plaster, poly etc (which they no longer allow) and in fact their agency BRANZ even appraised them and approved them. By and large councils and builders aren't half as much to blame as the govt. The latest deal 25% + 25% is fair given that a good portion of the blame lies with the market itself (home owners) who demanded the cheapest prices which forced declining standards.

[Littleman]

Heh. Ain't that the truth. Actually I didn't tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth about how I feel about cops. My statements on the forum have been a bit one sided so I will (later.. busy now) tell you about my advice to my son when he recently told me he wants to be a cop.

Statistically junior will end up working in an office selling something, doing data entry or being in repetitious trade leading a life of mediocrity. Maybe stumble a little bit up the corporate ladder like his old man. A flyingcrocodile45 clone…

Lets concede for a moment that there a limited astronaut jobs available.

You should have the confidence in your son that he’s been grounded enough in ‘good morals’ that he can withstand the ‘omnipotent corrupting culture of the Police’ to infect you son with unethical work habits and morals.

There’s a fine line between warning your currently idealistic son about the perils of joining the ‘corrupt organisation’ and letting him have an open mind to make his own decisions on life (the later I’m sure would reflect better on the parent).

The variety of people/events he deals with in the Police may make him appreciate what he has rather than waiting to receive his father’s inevitable inheritance and living in homogeneity. He only lives once so why inflict a conservative boring life on him.

Worse case scenario, he leaves if he doesn’t like it. Just like any other job.

When it comes to criticising the Police you’re furiously outspoken and yet actively do nothing about it when the opportunity arises.

That gentlemen, is the archetypal keyboard warrior.

[Ixion]

True but lets not forget the Green party who were pushing for untreated framing. The BIA advised government that the untreated timber would fail but they ignored it. The govt made it an acceptable solution that BCA's (councils) could not reject. They also allowed the use of direct fix fibre cement, plaster, poly etc (which they no longer allow) and in fact their agency BRANZ even appraised them and approved them. By and large councils and builders aren't half as much to blame as the govt. The latest deal 25% + 25% is fair given that a good portion of the blame lies with the market itself (home owners) who demanded the cheapest prices which forced declining standards.

Yes, that's true about the Greens. They've a lot to answer for, and they,re very quietly sliding away from it
Dunno about home owners getting a cheap price, but there was certainly a lot of the price went into gaudy trimmings that should have been spent on getting the basics right.

Like fake columns! At the height of the boom Mrs Ixion dragged me along to look at these flash houses. Big hollow columns supporting nothing. They were just a thin fibre shell, and the structure they purported to support ( the portico in a proper design) actually supported them.

Fibre board glued straight onto framing, and a one inch gap where the cladding didnt meet up with the window sills . I could stick a finger straight into the wall cavity.

The builders rep on site was totally clueless. No thanks.mate, but someone bought them.

[flyingcrocodile46]

Statistically junior will end up working in an office selling something, doing data entry or being in repetitious trade leading a life of mediocrity. Maybe stumble a little bit up the corporate ladder like his old man. A flyingcrocodile45 clone…

Lets concede for a moment that there a limited astronaut jobs available.

You should have the confidence in your son that he’s been grounded enough in ‘good morals’ that he can withstand the ‘omnipotent corrupting culture of the Police’ to infect you son with unethical work habits and morals.

There’s a fine line between warning your currently idealistic son about the perils of joining the ‘corrupt organisation’ and letting him have an open mind to make his own decisions on life (the later I’m sure would reflect better on the parent).

The variety of people/events he deals with in the Police may make him appreciate what he has rather than waiting to receive his father’s inevitable inheritance and living in homogeneity. He only lives once so why inflict a conservative boring life on him.

Worse case scenario, he leaves if he doesn’t like it. Just like any other job.

When it comes to criticising the Police you’re furiously outspoken and yet actively do nothing about it when the opportunity arises.

That gentlemen, is the archetypal keyboard warrior.

I apply my energy and efforts where I believe the achieve the most value as relates to my experience (as per post #96) and in doing so I have and do make a difference for the better in areas which I can make a positive difference relative to the effort made.

The only way the issues the police force face will be resolved is by way of their own efforts. It is pretty widely accepted that those not working directly with an issue (i.e employed as a police officer in this case) generally have little if any means of impact other than vocalising their opinions and concerns to those who can more directly influence the issue. If you have some contrary ideas then lets hear them.... or are you simply another keyboard warrior attempting to put another of your ilk in their place????

[Katman]

The only way the issues the police force face will be resolved is by way of their own efforts.

Much like motorcyclists.

[Spearfish]

If your garage roof leak is away from the gable ends and lower edge then it is likely that it is leaking at either fixing points, sheet laps (facing wrong way or insufficient lap) or the ridge flashing (particularly if the required turned up ends have not been formed at the top edge of the sheets). Give the manufacturer a call and ask them to have a look at it. It is likely a very easy fix. Another possible problem that may occur is condensation (interior moisture) If it is warm inside the garage it is likely that the moisture vapour level is quite high and as the warm air rises to contact the roofing iron (moisture vapour passes through the roof underlay) the air temperature drops forcing the vapour to tun into water which can then run down the underlay until it finds a hole (at sheet fixings, tears or incorrectly formed laps in the underlay etc) then fills your milk bottles.

Cheers Caseye.

Its a bit late for useful advice now LoL
Still have trouble believing someone who answers an ad for a house for sale has any blame for how it was manufactured?
Imagine how long bike manufactures would last if people brought shyt built bikes and the manufacturer blamed the consumer for being at fault for simply wanting it.
But then that shoots my foot with a J20 because look at the Chinese crap that being sold...Hmmm
"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me"

[flyingcrocodile46]

Yes, that's true about the Greens. They've a lot to answer for, and they,re very quietly sliding away from it
Dunno about home owners getting a cheap price, but there was certainly a lot of the price went into gaudy trimmings that should have been spent on getting the basics right.

Like fake columns! At the height of the boom Mrs Ixion dragged me along to look at these flash houses. Big hollow columns supporting nothing. They were just a thin fibre shell, and the structure they purported to support ( the portico in a proper design) actually supported them.

Fibre board glued straight onto framing, and a one inch gap where the cladding didnt meet up with the window sills . I could stick a finger straight into the wall cavity.

The builders rep on site was totally clueless. No thanks.mate, but someone bought them.

There is no disputing that there are and were bad builders out there that did dumb shit. But as Caseye said a lot were contracted to do so and to deviate from contract documents would likely result in financial penalty, breach of contract etc. So it is not necessarily always clear cut.

With respect to my comments about the market getting what it deserves/paid for. You may need to have been in the industry to appreciate that a large percentage of houses were built by owner builders who employed individual contractors rather than opting for full contract. They often (approx 90% in my experience) took the cheapest prices without properly ascertaining what a fair price for the work should be. Good builders simply could not compete with hammer hands that only priced half the work that should be done because they either didn't know what work was entailed or were working from plans that the owner builder paid a draftsman to prepare (rather than an architect) to the minimum standards that would pass consent. They frequently lacked cross sections and usually didn't have any construction details that would only become more obvious when construction was underway. This really isn't an easy issue to understand and could take a year or two to expand on adequately. There are no clear cut answers to why the failures occurred as there are so many influencing factors no one answer is correct for any more than one situation. The science behind our building failures goes back to the 70's.

Suffice to say that in the good old days when we only had half a dozen cladding systems and construction methodologies, builders could be relied on to know all the right things to do. Now days there are literally 100 times more types of cladding systems and construction methods. It is impossible for a working tradesman to keep up with much more than 5 or 10% of the changes that occur and options available for housing today.

[flyingcrocodile46]

Its a bit late for useful advice now LoL
Still have trouble believing someone who answers an ad for a house for sale has any blame for how it was manufactured?
Imagine how long bike manufactures would last if people brought shyt built bikes and the manufacturer blamed the consumer for being at fault for simply wanting it.
But then that shoots my foot with a J20 because look at the Chinese crap that being sold...Hmmm
"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me"

I meant the market in general. Not specific individuals. However some specific individuals have caused a lot of the problems themselves (as acknowledged in some determinations).

Btw, his garage hasn't fallen down yet so it may not be too late for the advice to be of some value. Thanks for the neg feedback.

[Ixion]

I think I should have said developers rep not builders rep. I don't think he was anything to do with the person that actually built it.
And is certainly agree that the problem was/is with the people that did the designs not the guys that nailed them together.

That gap under the window sill ( actually an ornamental pot plant shelf, the Windows were aluminium framed) , i looked at the one on the other wall. No gap there, the fibre was sealed up to the bottom of the " sill " with plastic compound. But when I pressed it , it flexed in, it was plain that there was nothing behind it. That was the design, not the builder, no dwang shown on the drawings he's not going to add one.

But all of those faults wouldn't have amounted to the.major.mess we have if they'd used treated timber.

[caseye]

Ya didn't? did ya?Oh come on spearfish, negative feedback for making an effort to give his son a balanced(albiet, his balanced) opinion of the world as it relates to joining the Police .Sad man , that is sad.
Plenty o fish in the sea there Croc.

[Spearfish]

Ya didn't? did ya?Oh come on spearfish, negative feedback for making an effort to give his son a balanced(albiet, his balanced) opinion of the world as it relates to joining the Police .Sad man , that is sad.
Plenty o fish in the sea there Croc.

Yeah I know, he didn't retaliate either so he is the better man.

[marty]

. It is impossible for a working tradesman to keep up with much more than 5 or 10% of the changes that occur and options available for housing today.

yet you expect a Police officer to intimately know all legislation from the last 100 years at the drop of a hat without referring to any books? Make instant calls on legality or not, make all calls 100% and without error, then if it doesn't go their way, they can are criminally liable? I don't see any builder being done for fraud, for building houses that they knew were going to leak bad builders out there that did dumb shit. But as Caseye said a lot were contracted to do so and to deviate from contract documents would likely result in financial penalty, breach of contract etc - sounds like a perfect pecuniary gain type of fraud - they knew the work was shit, but they did it anyway as to not do it would result in them not getting $$.

[caseye]

Yeah I know, he didn't retaliate either so he is the better man.

Hey at least you've acknowledged that and kept the thread going without resorting to name calling and hair pulling. on ya.

[caseye]

yet you expect a Police officer to intimately know all legislation from the last 100 years at the drop of a hat without referring to any books? Make instant calls on legality or not, make all calls 100% and without error, then if it doesn't go their way, they can are criminally liable? I don't see any builder being done for fraud, for building houses that they knew were going to leak bad builders out there that did dumb shit. But as Caseye said a lot were contracted to do so and to deviate from contract documents would likely result in financial penalty, breach of contract etc - sounds like a perfect pecuniary gain type of fraud - they knew the work was shit, but they did it anyway as to not do it would result in them not getting $$.

marty not totally an unfair conclusion to draw, re the builders being dodgy.
Like the reference to Police having to know everything but others not, Normal isn't it.High standard we expect of our men and women in Blue.
Pecuniary fraud? hummmmmmm well no, cause you see they knew alright, but were actually overruled by the BRANZ association of NZ, by the NZ Govt who made it possible for the manufacture of the crap we had to use here in NZ and last and by no means least the Councils who made it mandatory to use the specified products.
Builders, timber merchants, suppliers and sub contractors from all over the country told the Govt and the councils what would happen if they took this road.They did anyway and no amount of complaining made it go away, so the builders with any sense picked the jobs they built and made sure there was no leaky building syndrome in them in the first palce, the rest took whatever work they could and ended up jigsaw puzzle assemblers.
Main people to make Buckets of cash from No treatment timber and or water proof exterior cladding, the Govt in increased sales taxes on huge amounts of untreated timber, the producers of the timber and the cladding, read here any of the large manufacturing firms known globally but based here in NZ.
It was a wrought, we as suppliers told the makers what we thought and were simply told, thats fine don't supply it and go bust because everyone else will be.An ya know what, they did.Shame.

[marty]

It's a shame you didn't pass on to your son the values you are trying to backpedal and extoll on here - something like 'that sounds like a great idea son - you could really make a difference I'm sure. I'll support you 100% in your choice, however you should consider getting a trade first or doing some travelling first - it will give you so many more skills to use when you are in a situation that could give you a way better work story'