Warning- for when you up the pace.

[Qkkid]

Look Steve, come on, how can you not see the merits of this Thread?

Seriously
You have to stop wanking first of all
So you can get your eye sight back
Also need time for bruises on knuckles to go down from having chair to close under keyboard.
Dont worry Steve (Katman) you can still come on Beyonds (Pauls) "COROMANDEL RIDES" which you do go on YES
Just make sure you practice what you preach.

[mashman]

Yeah, a series of "How to treat the road as a racetrack" lessons.

Just what we need.

Shame you read it that way... i read it as the OP merely alerting riders to the fact that at some point you will up the pace and you need to know certain things about your motorcycle and what happens to it and you when you go faster. Safety first, plactice plactice plactice... and when i say going faster, it could be 1st and 2nd gear riding and well within the speed limit... it could be going from 50 - 100... it could even be balls out... either way the OP explains what to expect. To me it's educational, to you it's race track lessons WTF??? perhaps you should twist that grip a little harder once in a while... YOU CAN DO IT SAFELY AND STILL STAY WELL WITHIN THE SPEED LIMIT.

[R-Soul]

Shame you read it that way... i read it as the OP merely alerting riders to the fact that at some point you will up the pace and you need to know certain things about your motorcycle and what happens to it and you when you go faster. Safety first, plactice plactice plactice... and when i say going faster, it could be 1st and 2nd gear riding and well within the speed limit... it could be going from 50 - 100... it could even be balls out... either way the OP explains what to expect. To me it's educational, to you it's race track lessons WTF??? perhaps you should twist that grip a little harder once in a while... YOU CAN DO IT SAFELY AND STILL STAY WELL WITHIN THE SPEED LIMIT.

Its not about being "within the speed limit" - that figure is an arbitrary number put forward by beaurocrats that may or may not apply to the riders personal level of ability. Its about being within your personal comfort zone of your abilities on the road, AND below the speed limit. (because going above speed limits just creates speed differentials with other traffic that are inherently dangerous).

The idea is that you shoould not go outside of your abilities or even close to them on the road at all. Simple really.

[mashman]

Its not about being "within the speed limit" - that figure is an arbitrary number put forward by beaurocrats that may or may not apply to the riders personal level of ability. Its about being within your personal comfort zone of your abilities on the road, AND below the speed limit. (because going above speed limits just creates speed differentials with other traffic that are inherently dangerous).

The idea is that you shoould not go outside of your abilities or even close to them on the road at all. Simple really.

My context was speed weighted as Katman decided that the OP was about giving people race track lessons for the road... the idea, for me, goes above and beyond the abilities of the rider.

[R-Soul]

My context was speed weighted as Katman decided that the OP was about giving people race track lessons for the road... the idea, for me, goes above and beyond the abilities of the rider.

The OP wanted mentors to put forward suggestions for what to dowhen we push it (regardless of sped). I (and I believe Katman- but still no confirmation there?) am saying that, on the road, you should not be pushing anything at all, unless you are out of fuel. Play it strictly by the book, and ride within your personal comfort zone. Your abilities will expand without having to push anything. And if you want to expand your abilities faster, do it on track. And then even if you have awesome track abilities, STILL ride like a nanna on the road.

[Katman]

The OP wanted mentors to put forward suggestions for what to dowhen we push it (regardless of sped). I (and I believe Katman- but still no confirmation there?) am saying that, on the road, you should not be pushing anything at all, unless you are out of fuel. Play it strictly by the book, and ride within your personal comfort zone. Your abilities will expand without having to push anything. And if you want to expand your abilities faster, do it on track. And then even if you have awesome track abilities, STILL ride like a nanna on the road.

(Just for clarification, I have never said "Never exceed the speed limit").

I completely agree that the road is not the place to be exploring any limits or boundries.

Furthermore, any limits or boundries discovered on the track should only be utilised on the road as a means to get yourself out of danger - not to place yourself in danger.

[mashman]

The OP wanted mentors to put forward suggestions for what to dowhen we push it (regardless of sped). I (and I believe Katman- but still no confirmation there?) am saying that, on the road, you should not be pushing anything at all, unless you are out of fuel. Play it strictly by the book, and ride within your personal comfort zone. Your abilities will expand without having to push anything. And if you want to expand your abilities faster, do it on track. And then even if you have awesome track abilities, STILL ride like a nanna on the road.

You're havin a laugh... Playing it strictly by what book (being legal)? How do you know when you're "pushing it" (what are the symptoms)? Why go to the track to do things faster when i'm already riding under the speed limit, on roads i know, and don't feel like i'm pushing anything?

[mashman]

I completely agree that the road is not the place to be exploring any limits or boundries.

Bullshit. It's the one place you should be finding limits and boundaries, because that's where you learn about the common obstacles, that's where you learn about the road conditions, that's where other road users are in their wildly varied vehicles and mental states...

[Katman]

Bullshit. It's the one place you should be finding limits and boundaries, because that's where you learn about the common obstacles, that's where you learn about the road conditions, that's where other road users are in their wildly varied vehicles and mental states...

Yeah, I suppose - if you want to end up smeared across the grille of a 4x4.

[MSTRS:Me]

For the vast majority of riders, the road is the only place they ride. So realistically, that is where they need to develop their riding skills. For a newbie, just being on the road is putting them well beyond their comfort zone (well, should be anyway). So every moment on the road, they are probably a little beyond what they would really be comfortable with. As their riding progresses, so too will their comfort zone expand to encompass their new abilities. Obviously there comes a time when their abilities match the speed allowed on the road, and should also have developed to the point where the rider can determine whether their speed is appropriate for the road they are on. They should also have developed their hazard awareness skills and learned how to approach/deal with the multitude of shit that is likely to hurt.
Should they wish to further expand their abilities speedwise, and find a new level of comfort zone, they should take it to the track.

[mashman]

Yeah, I suppose - if you want to end up smeared across the grille of a 4x4.

On a daily basis, how often does that happen? What are your chances of that happening?

[R-Soul]

Bullshit. It's the one place you should be finding limits and boundaries, because that's where you learn about the common obstacles, that's where you learn about the road conditions, that's where other road users are in their wildly varied vehicles and mental states...

As soon as you are already close to the limits of your capabilities, and the unexpected happens (it WILL happen) you have less of a buffer, and are that much closer to potential catastrophe, be it death or disablement. As Katman says: You use your abilities toget you out of trouble, not to get you into trouble in the first place.

[R-Soul]

You have a safety buffer associated with:
- the speed you ride
- your abilities
- the manner in which you ride

Every now and then, the unexpected happens. The less buffer you have, the less allowance you have made for the situation, the quicker the situation is going to exceed what buffer you have. Sometimes, it is the riders OWN riding that IS the situation (in fact according to the ACC, most of the time) because they have been pushing their boundaries.

When the buffer is finished, you get sore. On the track you get a little bit sore. On the road you die. Ride to maximise your buffer on the road.

[R-Soul]

On a daily basis, how often does that happen? What are your chances of that happening?

Ask the ACC.

[bogan]

As soon as you are already close to the limits of your capabilities, and the unexpected happens (it WILL happen) you have less of a buffer, and are that much closer to potential catastrophe, be it death or disablement. As Katman says: You use your abilities toget you out of trouble, not to get you into trouble in the first place.

But if you never push it, your abilities may be a lot less than the bikes. It's a difficult position as it's stupid to go riding around pushing it all the time cos as you say, less buffer if the shit hits the fan. But if the shit hits the fan and you don't know what the bike is capable of, you may have a crash that was avoidable to others with sufficient ability. The best option is obviously track/training days, second best would be pushing a bit on a road you know well and have excellent vision and no chance of hitting anyone else.