Corner braking - should I do it or not?

[Spearfish]

Braking in a corner, yeap I do it, have done for many years,
But I do agree that unless you know how your bike handles when you do this,
Unless you have had practice doing it,
Unless you understand the dynamics ,
Slow down till you do,
I agree whith the majority of what has been posted here about not braking in a corner or you riask a high side.
but have to put into the mix of following another bike into a corner and find you are closing that gap faster than you would like,
Not because you are going too fast for the corner, but the other rider, who you have been following at a reasonable pace, is one who although his bike can handle the speed , slows down way more than is needed.
So brakes on or run into him... no amount of leaning or countersterring will save you.
Im sure this will expand this discussion.
SO what do you guys recomend to do?
when following another bike into a corner at a sensibile pace,
and find he/she has dropped of way more speed than is needed to safley get around the corner.
And allowing for the recomendation of, "dont brake in a corner"
Interesting thoughts???

Shouldn't the following rider be leaving enough room to come to a complete stop in the clear space in view to them?
I know in group riding though, especially in a staggered formation, it can tend to get a bit bunched up if everyone is trying for the best line at the start of bends/curves etc. Just to gain room I seem to enter bends slower than I probably would on my own but thats just group dynamics I think.

[CHOPPA]

Its fine just remember you have less grip to brake on and your bike wont turn very well. At some stage your gonna have to suck it up look where you need to go and turn.

You can drag your rear brake which works well. Try Dragging your rear brake when doing U turns and slow round a bouts it makes your bike really stable.... Try it

[Metastable]

Well I just don't know how someone would highside by applying the brakes into the corner. You will always low side, UNLESS someone just jams on the rear.... but why would anyone hit the rear brake going too hot into a corner makes no sense as the front suspension would be loaded.... and the rear unloaded, so you are asking for trouble if you hit the rear brakes.

Look at the racers again....
Lowside = on the brakes usually front corner entry to apex
Highside = on the gas usually from apex to corner exit

[OutForADuck]

Its fine just remember you have less grip to brake on and your bike wont turn very well. At some stage your gonna have to suck it up look where you need to go and turn.

You can drag your rear brake which works well. Try Dragging your rear brake when doing U turns and slow round a bouts it makes your bike really stable.... Try it

Chopper you're onto it... A tecnique they don't teach here for very slow speed handling is fixed (slipping) clutch and throttle and using the rear brake to control your speed .... works beautifully.

Agree also that you can brake into corners. .really deep... but as you point out... less grip and at some point you are going to have to suck it up or bottle out!!!

[OutForADuck]

Its fine just remember you have less grip to brake on and your bike wont turn very well. At some stage your gonna have to suck it up look where you need to go and turn.

You can drag your rear brake which works well. Try Dragging your rear brake when doing U turns and slow round a bouts it makes your bike really stable.... Try it

Chopper you're onto it... A tecnique they don't teach here for very slow speed handling is fixed (slipping) clutch and throttle and using the rear brake to control your speed .... works beautifully.

Agree also that you can brake into corners. .really deep... but as you point out... less grip and at some point you are going to have to suck it up or bottle out!!!

[hospitalfood]

stay off the front brake, it will stand the bike up.
you can gently apply the rear and hold it on gently untill you feel ready to release it, it will help keep the bike stable as well. when you release gently apply throttle

[Roadsafe Nelson]

A tecnique they don't teach here for very slow speed handling is fixed (slipping) clutch and throttle and using the rear brake to control your speed .... works beautifully.

Agree also that you can brake into corners.

What makes you think that is a technique that is not taught here??? Roadsafe teach ALL our students that technique for good slow riding control

Braking needs to be done before the corner while the bike is upright & travelling in a straight line.

This person is a NEWBIE rider, he does not need to learn all about how racers ride...

auvicua.. do yourself a favour & get yourself along to a professional rider training school & learn the correct techniques for road riding, as a new rider!!!

[Metastable]

I absolutely agree that you want to do all your braking while upright when street riding. However, why not practice trail braking under CONTROLLED circumstances for the OH $#!T moment? Hopefully a rider doesn't have to use it, but if they do.... they might as well have learned it before hand, because trying to figure it out in a panic isn't going to work all that well. All I'm advocating is practicing/training..

On another note - rear brake (this isn't directed towards anyone, I'm just saying) ..... yes you can use the rear brake to settle the bike down and you want to use it for slow speed stuff.... however if someone is coming too hot into a corner, I would assume, that they are hard on the front brakes..... starting to apply the rear at this point is kind of a bad idea, IMO. They should already be on the back brake if anything.... and starting to lay off of it as the corner approaches.

[Roadsafe Nelson]

why not practice trail braking under CONTROLLED circumstances for the OH $#!T moment?

Exactly.. but learn & practice the skills in a controlled environment.. with the people who are highly trained & practiced in teaching the correct techniques & skills.. not just any Tom Dick & Harry on the internet, who has an opinion.. & thinks he's right..

[Metastable]

That's what I'm saying.... if he has the ability to get professional help, awesome. All I'm saying is that it is a valuable skill..... and it shouldn't be viewed as taboo. When I first started riding nothing of that nature was available.

[george formby]

Braking in a corner, yeap I do it, have done for many years,
But I do agree that unless you know how your bike handles when you do this,
Unless you have had practice doing it,
Unless you understand the dynamics ,
Slow down till you do,
I agree whith the majority of what has been posted here about not braking in a corner or you riask a high side.
but have to put into the mix of following another bike into a corner and find you are closing that gap faster than you would like,
Not because you are going too fast for the corner, but the other rider, who you have been following at a reasonable pace, is one who although his bike can handle the speed , slows down way more than is needed.
So brakes on or run into him... no amount of leaning or countersterring will save you.
Im sure this will expand this discussion.
SO what do you guys recomend to do?
when following another bike into a corner at a sensibile pace,
and find he/she has dropped of way more speed than is needed to safley get around the corner.
And allowing for the recomendation of, "dont brake in a corner"
Interesting thoughts???

Get more compatable riding buddie's... Sorry, but you have just stated one of the reasons why group rides make me uncomfortable. A bunch of riders with different bikes, opinions & skill levels always seems to create moments where another rider has to be avoided. The only solution is to ride in lots of space which can be impossible in a group.
Braking & steering mid corner is about feedback & limits, grip, balance, momentum & reaction.
I've had to lock the rear wheel of my bike & let it slide coming into a corner to fast (doh!) so that I would not cross the centre line into oncoming traffic. The bike set up perfectly to square off the corner & get round safely if scarily. I was hard on both brakes throughout until I was facing in the right direction & could get back on the gas & steer. Sounds legendary but I did nothing consciously other than look where I wanted to go, I don't think I could do it if I tried deliberately.
Thats what I mean by practice, thousands of hours (probably) riding on the road & on trails with an attitude to learn coming together in a moment of inattention & saving my skin.
I did stop to change my undies & have a ciggie afterwards. I guess you gotta do what you gotta do when the bike is leant over & something gets in the way.

[sinned]

Get more compatable riding buddie's... Sorry, but you have just stated one of the reasons why group rides make me uncomfortable. A bunch of riders with different bikes, opinions & skill levels always seems to create moments where another rider has to be avoided. The only solution is to ride in lots of space which can be impossible in a group.

+1 and to have compatible riding buddies you need first to know of their capability and maturity to ride within their skill level. A few experiences on KB rides have left me with the view that KB is a great place to meet up online but not as a group on the road. My group rides are with Ulysses or a few riders I know well and with lots of space.

[CHOPPA]

The only way I learn how to do stuff is to do stuff.... Better to try things then get caught out. Your question seemed to be asking if your going to fast for the corner should i still try and brake and turn, well the answer is YES either that or take the other peoples advice and make the decision to take the corner slower when your in the trees.....

Try applying your brakes around corners at normal speeds and see how your bike reacts, go to a track day and possibly a rider training day.

We all think we are experts on here so its hard to know who actually knows what there talking about, also some people that do may suggest techniques that dont suit your riding style.

[Jantar]

stay off the front brake, it will stand the bike up....

That depends on the bike and the steering geometry. On the old Kwaka tripples you just had to think about the front brake mid corner and it would stand right up, but my RE5 of the same year could have brakes applied to the point of locking up the front tyre and there was no hint of standing up. Modern bikes are much more forgiving than those older machines, but its still counter steer first and foremost, and only brake mid corner in very exceptional circumstances.

[Goblin]

The only way I learn how to do stuff is to do stuff....


snip!


We all think we are experts on here so its hard to know who actually knows what there talking about, also some people that do may suggest techniques that dont suit your riding style.

Well after watching you braking well hard into turn2 yesterday, I reckon you got a pretty good grasp of it. Thats one wild style!