Are we TOTALLY invisible?

[Dave Lobster]

Well the choking option might prove a bit drastic, but I have often been tempted to put a boot in their door as I go past whilst negotiating an emergency manouveur...How would the law relate to that???

No no no no no. You wouldn't be putting a boot in. You would be fending it off.

[MIXONE]

That's just a normal morning commute in wellywood.

[Insanity_rules]

That's just a normal morning commute in wellywood.

Testify! We get a good share of rectalcephalitic tin jockeys in Wellywood. Auckland is pretty prolific too from my experience.

[Urano]

Bullshit.

oh guy...
i LOVE those argued replies...

here it is a short article citing italian highway patrol statistics:
http://translate.google.com/translat...2F&sl=it&tl=en

translation in this case is pretty bad, but about in the middle of the page you cane read the bold statement which approximately says
*70% of accident with a car or a truck is because they didn't see you*

and remember that those are only the cases where the police went out on the site.
i clearly remember a similar statistic given by insurance companies, so referred to all those cases the police didn't show up too, which raised that number at about 80%
very, very interesting the reported fact that those numbers fall if the car driver is a biker too.
it's clear that being a biker teach you WHERE and HOW to look outside, as we discussed also in the topic called "did the bike make you a better car driver" or similar...


anyway, even if you want to remain on the conservative side, the conclusion is: "they don't see us". period.

[Katman]

anyway, even if you want to remain on the conservative side, the conclusion is: "they don't see us". period.

Your statistics don't measure up to the figures we have here.

And quite frankly, I'm sick to fucking death of hearing "but they didn't see me".

I'm more interested in "but did you see them?"

[Bren]

Your statistics don't measure up to the figures we have here.

And quite frankly, I'm sick to fucking death of hearing "but they didn't see me".

I'm more interested in "but did you see them?"

I dont know what to say katman, but do you always try and bring out the worst of people, cos you do bloody well at it!

[Katman]

but do you always try and bring out the worst of people,

Not at all.

I'm just sick and tired of seeing motorcyclists portraying themselves as the perpetual victim.

We need to wake the fuck up and realise that the power of our own survival lies in our own hands.

[Urano]

I'm more interested in "but did you see them?"

and the answer, often, is: "sure i did, dear Saint Peter. he was waiting at the intersection, he had the stop signal, i slowed down and assumed he saw me and was waiting for me to pass. then he started suddenly when i was too close to do anything"

...

[Kickaha]

i slowed down and assumed he saw me
...

There's where it normally turns to custard, you shouldn't ever assume anything when it comes to dealing with other motorists

[miloking]

Not at all.

I'm just sick and tired of seeing motorcyclists portraying themselves as the perpetual victim.

We need to wake the fuck up and realise that the power of our own survival lies in our own hands.

Fuck for once i agree with you!
What going on????

[st00ji]

There's where it normally turns to custard, you shouldn't ever assume anything when it comes to dealing with other motorists

sorry if you are riding on the road at some point you have to trust your fellow road users, else you'd never get out of the driveway

[p.dath]

oh guy...
i LOVE those argued replies...

here it is a short article citing italian highway patrol statistics:
http://translate.google.com/translat...2F&sl=it&tl=en

translation in this case is pretty bad, but about in the middle of the page you cane read the bold statement which approximately says
*70% of accident with a car or a truck is because they didn't see you*

Knowing some of Katman's prior posts I suspect that argument he has is not with the "number", but fundamentally with the concept that accidents are caused by others who did not see you.

I suspect Katman would put forward that you are personally responsible for your own safety, and if you weren't seen by another road user it's because you put yourself into that position, failed to make yourself noticable, etc.

I believe Katman would use the phrase "situational awareness" - being aware of what's around you, who has seen you, potential dangers, etc, and then taking steps to mitigate those risks.


On the whole, I believe you are personally responsible for your own safety. I believe there are a small percentage of cases were things occur that you would not reasonably take into consideration (such as a trucks engine throwing a piston in an opposing lane result in a high speed projectile being launched into your chest ...), but on the whole, you can see that you are approaching intersections that could have hidden cars approaching, etc, you can adjust your speed and position on the road to accomodate the risk - as opposed to carrying on with no consideration for the worst happening.

I could summarise it like this. If you don't like getting hurt then do something so you wont get hurt - don't rely on someone else not to hurt you. Seem sensible?

[Kickaha]

sorry if you are riding on the road at some point you have to trust your fellow road users, else you'd never get out of the driveway

I would rather treat every other fellow road user as a homicidal maniac who is out to kill me than trust them at all, that way I will be a lot safer

[Katman]

Knowing some of Katman's prior posts I suspect that argument he has is not with the "number", but fundamentally with the concept that accidents are caused by others who did not see you.

I suspect Katman would put forward that you are personally responsible for your own safety, and if you weren't seen by another road user it's because you put yourself into that position, failed to make yourself noticable, etc.

I believe Katman would use the phrase "situational awareness" - being aware of what's around you, who has seen you, potential dangers, etc, and then taking steps to mitigate those risks.

A great many accidents could be avoided if our foremost thought when riding in close proximity to other vehicles was "what if they haven't seen me?"

The "what if" part of that thought will cause you to pre-plan avoidance strategies.

[DMNTD:Me]

sorry if you are riding on the road at some point you have to trust your fellow road users, else you'd never get out of the driveway

If you put all your trust in the other motorists on the road...then eventually you will end up on it.