Aftermarket wheels for new National SUPERBIKE rules

[Biggles08]

How much do standard wheels weigh comapared to aftermarket?

Are slicks lighter than dot tyres?

Are there lighter race tyres available? and what if any specs have changed in tyre weight over the years?

VERY good questions!

For the tires, I'm pretty sure most racers would like 'grip' over lighter compounds...if we could have both I'm sure we would. The Dunlop 211GP's a F#$king heavy tires with a super thick tire wall so I would say the slicks would be lighter...but maybe not. Like I said, a tires job is to grip which leaves the rest of the un-sprung weight to be minimized as best you can...which obviously includes the wheels.

As far as stock weight vs aftermarket wheels like CARROZZERIA wheels, its hard to give an exact figure as every manufactures wheels vary in weight and indeed within the same model of bike too (Due to the inconsistencies in cast products...but this weight difference is minimal).
They are between 20% - %40 lighter than stock wheels, but then you have to look at how this weight is distributed in the actual wheels. Another point is the added rigidity of the wheels. Because they are Forged alloy, they are more consistent grain (which provides the extra strength) but this also makes the wheels flex less. I can notice a difference in the 'feel' in my front end when I have the CARROZZERIA wheels on vs Stock because of this. For my bike, the back wheel setup is approx 2.8kg lighter with the CARROZZERIA wheels setup on.

Basically the best way to describe the feeling difference is when I have the CARROZZERIA wheels on my ZX6R 600cc bike, it makes it feel like I'm riding a smaller frame like a 250cc bike...but with 600cc+ horsepower. I imagine the same would be for a Superbike.

The first thing I noticed when I put the wheels on was my increased acceleration of my bike. Starts all of a sudden became a wheelie fest and I had to re-learn the launch clutch control. Second thing was the braking later. I moved my braking marker 20m at Manfield front straight further forward (which in reality was probably where everyone else was braking to start with)

They are amazing to ride on...

[Maido]

IMO I don't think light weight wheels should be allowed. While I am all for the latest gadgets and mods I don't think these fit into the rule set and angle of the rules.

To me, the current rule set (and more so the proposed rule set) tend to be aimed at evening up the different strengths and weaknesses the current bikes have. The mods allowed lean themselves to the engine producing similar horsepower. ie compression, cam timing in the old rules, and more so now with camshafts (A/m camshafts can be dialed to neutralise the bottom end on a Honda or the top end of a Yamaha etc) so in this sense the bikes will be more similar, rider skill and bike setup will be rewarded.

Wheels are something that all bikes have anyway and they are all pretty much within a similar weight bracket between manufacturers, so allowing lightweight wheels, while reducing unsprung weight and its effects, is really just a modification for the sake of modifying something.
Believe me, I would love a set, the std Enkeis on Hondas are one of the heavier std rims around and I would love to ditch them, i have alot to gain by changing but I really don't see the sense.

Its like data logging systems, they are icing that isn't really required but are fun to work with.

I think you do wonderful advertising for your sponsors Biggles, and I can see this is something you are really passionate about, but my personal opinion is that the wheel rules should stay how they are. Guess we will find out tomorrow.

[Biggles08]

IMO I don't think light weight wheels should be allowed.

Nobody cares what you SI boys think anyway

To me, the current rule set (and more so the proposed rule set) tend to be aimed at evening up the different strengths and weaknesses the current bikes have. The mods allowed lean themselves to the engine producing similar horsepower. ie compression, cam timing in the old rules, and more so now with camshafts (A/m camshafts can be dialed to neutralise the bottom end on a Honda or the top end of a Yamaha etc) so in this sense the bikes will be more similar, rider skill and bike setup will be rewarded.

I don't think this is the intention of the new proposed changes at all. I believe the main reason for these rule changes is to provide a less expensive, more even playing field in the STOCK classes and at the same time making the SUPERSPORT / SUPERBIKE classes as different to this new STOCK class as possible. There is no point having two national classes in each engine cc classes too similar to each other...this was the problem at last years rounds so no-body ran in the Stock class. This year I believe it will be a 50 / 50 split between stock / sport classes because they are two completely animals.

Wheels are something that all bikes have anyway and they are all pretty much within a similar weight bracket between manufacturers, so allowing lightweight wheels, while reducing unsprung weight and its effects, is really just a modification for the sake of modifying something.
Believe me, I would love a set, the std Enkeis on Hondas are one of the heavier std rims around and I would love to ditch them, i have alot to gain by changing but I really don't see the sense.

I disagree completely and the same argument can be said about suspension. I don't ever remember seeing a bike come out of the factory with no rear suspension. The fact is, reducing unsprung weight has massive advantages in your bikes suspension performance and it is anything but a gimmick, morelike 'physics' I would suggest. You have to have riden it to appreciate the merits I think.

Its like data logging systems, they are icing that isn't really required but are fun to work with.

Bad example but I do understand your point...even though as explained above I disagree with it.

I think you do wonderful advertising for your sponsors Biggles, and I can see this is something you are really passionate about, but my personal opinion is that the wheel rules should stay how they are. Guess we will find out tomorrow.

Why thank you J...we try our best...but I feel the need to have a last little swing here...the lighter wheels are 'bigger' than my sponsor and the physics do back it up.

[Robert Taylor]

There is so much to be discussed about this post and you are wrong...your opinion DOES mean shit

The fact is reducing your unsprung weight improves your suspension regardless of if it is aftermarket or not....the variance of improvement is just dependent on the quality of your suspension (if that makes sense). So if you wish to argue safety reasons, then this issue remains relevant for aftermarket wheels as they improve how your suspension reacts to the road surface...especially on bumpy surfaces (which NZ has plenty of). Personally I believe in the open class, the reasoning of safety is a smoke screen as really they are after faster laps any way they can and if you can brake 20m later than your competition then you want them.

Heck you are beginning to sound like me! For the record I thought the rules as they were largely werent ''broken''

[White trash]

That's an interesting equation WT...I think possibly some female reasoning there too! Care to explain the $6.5k?

How's that, can you get a couple of extra stock sets from the states for free?

I'm basing on an estimate of 2.5K a set. Three sets comes to seven and a half.

For stock wheels, you only need to buy another two pairs as MOST bikes I've seen come with a shiney wheel attached at the bottom of the forks and another snugly in the swing arm. So at $500 a set, it'll cost you a grand.

We take a grand off seven and a half grand, and after that complete bastard of a calculation, we get to a 6 and a half grand. For goodness sake girls, try to keep up

It matters not how much stronger they are than stock GSXR wheels anyway Marcus, you've seen me try to ride. I can fuck em up real good

[Maido]

I am not one to usually join in a quote fest but here we go.....

Nobody cares what you SI boys think anyway



I don't think this is the intention of the new proposed changes at all. I believe the main reason for these rule changes is to provide a less expensive, more even playing field in the STOCK classes and at the same time making the SUPERSPORT / SUPERBIKE classes as different to this new STOCK class as possible. There is no point having two national classes in each engine cc classes too similar to each other...this was the problem at last years rounds so no-body ran in the Stock class. This year I believe it will be a 50 / 50 split between stock / sport classes because they are two completely animals.

I think you missed my point, no doubt are the rules for stock and supersport entirely different, i am not questioning that at all. As you say, and everyone knows, the separate internal classes weren't very well subscribed to last year inidependantly, this is definately due to the fact that the differnces weren't far enough apart. I agree there will be an even number is each class this year also (well I hope so anyways!)
I am saying inside those classes the rules are setup to neutralise the bikes, meaning making each brand as similar as possible so rider skill and setup wins over horsepower.


I disagree completely and the same argument can be said about suspension. I don't ever remember seeing a bike come out of the factory with no rear suspension. The fact is, reducing unsprung weight has massive advantages in your bikes suspension performance and it is anything but a gimmick, morelike 'physics' I would suggest. You have to have riden it to appreciate the merits I think.

I think suspension is a completely different arguement. The stock suspenders aren't up to pushing to the limit, or over the limit in some cases, you only have to race on most factory rear shocks to feel them fade over the span of a 10 lap race. I have no doubt at all would changing the wheels on your bike make a huge handling difference, and you would definately go faster with less rotating mass and the ability to tune the suspension better.
What I am saying is you can still push 100% on std rims throughout a race without risking safetly or them changing characteristic unlike stock suspension where it fades and can become dangerous.


Why thank you J...we try our best...but I feel the need to have a last little swing here...the lighter wheels are 'bigger' than my sponsor and the physics do back it up.

Again, I am not doubting the "physics" behind these wheels, or trying to infer your doing this to make a quick buck for your sponsor, not at all, I am all for looking after the support crew and good on you for doing it.
I agree they are awesome, and i would love to have them (I am like a magpie for shiney stuff lol), but I am looking at the average guy trying to race a bike on a budget.

Anyways, if the rules change to allow it I will be giving you a ring haha! buddy pal! nudge nudge

[Maido]

Whoops i posted twice, er um, as you were..

[gixerracer]

What a F--kn Joke. I got my wheels today man they are cool

[Crasherfromwayback]

You 'racers' that think stock suspension can become 'dangerous' when it gets hot are soft in the head. Bit like saying we should shorten races in case the tyre gets too hot and become dangerous!!!

It's a fact of life/racing. Ride accordingly.

[98tls]

How much do standard wheels weigh comapared to aftermarket?

Are slicks lighter than dot tyres?

Are there lighter race tyres available? and what if any specs have changed in tyre weight over the years?

From memory there was around 7kgs difference between the oem rims and the Carrozzerias i put on my old TL.

[Biggles08]

What a F--kn Joke. I got my wheels today man they are cool

Now you gotta just put some knobblys on em and way you go!!! wooooop

[Biggles08]

I am not one to usually join in a quote fest but here we go.....
lots of other stuff in here too....

Still, we are all going to have to race on stock suspension in the New Stock class...the rules are out and its stock suspension! Going to be carnage me thinks! look here

hehe...but seriously I really do believe a good racer will ride the machine to its limit and have some sort of understanding as to where that is regardless of the wheels or suspension setup. The ownership is completely on the rider to push when he/she can and to back off when required...not blame our tools or lack of modifications.

I still maintain that for the 'safety' argument, reducing unsprung weight is arguably equally as important as any other handling modification you can make to a race bike, including changing from the stock suspension...they are equally as effective in making safety improvements to your bike. I quote a bit from the CARROZZERIA website here again which tells my point a bit better:

"Unsprung weight is the nemesis of the suspension in the war to maintain tire contact with the tarmac. The less unsprung weight the more effectively the suspension and ultimately the tires can do their jobs. To explain this lets pretend you had a job in which you had to raise and lower a hammer as moving obstacles came by on some sort of moving conveyor belt. First you had a hammer with a 1 pound head. As the conveyor belt moved faster at some point it would become impossible to move quickly enough and the hammer would be hit be an obstacle. If you used a hammer with a ½ pound head you would be able to negotiate the moving obstacles at a greater speed. Now imagine the hammerhead is the wheel, your wrist is the suspension system and the moving conveyor with obstacles is the bumpy tarmac. This is why most cars have independent suspensions. Reducing unsprung weight will improve the traction especially in bumpy corners. "

That sounds like a pretty good safety feature wouldn't you agree?

[Biggles08]

You 'racers' that think stock suspension can become 'dangerous' when it gets hot are soft in the head. Bit like saying we should shorten races in case the tyre gets too hot and become dangerous!!!

It's a fact of life/racing. Ride accordingly.

Your making Way too much sense here!!!

[Biggles08]

Heck you are beginning to sound like me! For the record I thought the rules as they were largely werent ''broken''

And I'm a sucker for red wine.....NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Tony.OK]

From memory there was around 7kgs difference between the oem rims and the Carrozzerias i put on my old TL.

That difference gets smaller and smaller the newer the bike, OEM wheels are getting lighter all the time.

Another way to look at it perhaps is that instead of a lower budgeted team spending large $$ on chasing a few extra HP with costly engine work, they use lighter wheels to gain some power/weight instead, feels like extra HP, prob costs less and saves money on the extra eng maintenance?

That all go's out the window if every advantage needs to be had though, this year will be interesting to see what the class/subclass ratio's are.............have a feeling the Stock classes may be more than just field fillers.

At the end of the day, NZ's versions of "the aliens" will still be at the pointy end, they'll probably have spent more tis all.