Is good customer service important to long term bikeshop survival and growth?

[merv]

What amazes me with this thread and the "glove" thread is how quickly Quasievil posts foul language even when no-one else does that straight up. Is that all aimed at providing the right kind of communication to prospective clients of the type he wants?

As for shops, I've said before the customer service I need are opening hours that suit me, and then they do need to be able to get what I want quickly, so that means an element of knowing the business and where to source stuff. We all hate it when the part gets ordered and the wrong thing arrives.

[MarkH]

they do need to be able to get what I want quickly, so that means an element of knowing the business and where to source stuff. We all hate it when the part gets ordered and the wrong thing arrives.

I've ordered stuff at Motomail and they have been pretty good - giving me a call the next day or the day after that to let me know that my stuff is in. The right thing arrived each time too. All I ask is that they keep up the good work and in return I'll keep going back to them when I need stuff.

I haven't really had a problem with this sort of thing anywhere I shop yet.

[merv]

Bought my last purchase of riding gear from Motomail and agree they were good to deal with.

[Argyle]

a good customer service is paramount for any business!

[BOMBER]

What amazes me with this thread and the "glove" thread is how quickly Quasievil posts foul language even when no-one else does that straight up. Is that all aimed at providing the right kind of communication to prospective clients of the type he wants?

Why the fuck shouldnt he, Dickwad Carver spends his life abusing Quasievil, calling his son Gay as well as a host of other shit, Carver is a worthless non achieving Dick and Quasi is a good prick that helps bikers out.
Carver you suck ya mummies dick

[thehollowmen]

I'm going to say what is bleeding obvious to some people;
Large bike shops that put many customers through will have more 'issues' than small ones.

At work, I did a study of error rates, and the department we thought was the worst was actually the best because about half our work came from them.

If you have a large bikeshop that puts through a thousand customers, and ten have problems, that's still better than a bike shop that puts though fifty customers and has one problem. But with the huge way information travels these days, about nine hundred and ninty customers return, but the vocal few will voice their issues to many people, hence getting a reputation as being a 'bad' bike shop.

Maybe a bad bikeshop is actually a good one with a lot of custom?

[carver]

Why the fuck shouldnt he, Dickwad Carver spends his life abusing Quasievil, calling his son Gay as well as a host of other shit, Carver is a worthless non achieving Dick and Quasi is a good prick that helps bikers out.
Carver you suck ya mummies dick

spends his life....
thats a big call to make

you sound you like you know me really well...have we met?

[shrub]

are primarily customer knowledge and product knowledge. If you know your customers; and I don't just mean individual customers, but customers as a species, then you are much more likely to be able to deliver what they are looking for because you understand how they think and what's important to them - getting a customers bike on the road before a rally is vital if they're into rallys, just as getting the parts in time for the first race of the season is for a racer.

Second you need to have product knowledge. Not just the bikes you sell, but the gear and accessories so you can get their order right the first time or give them the right advice when they're buying, including viable alternatives to their first choice if it's not available or over priced. You also need a good knowledge of how the suppliers work and whether they have the goods in stock or if they need to be imported. I have ordered parts from the UK that were there before stuff ordered from Auckland because I knew when the goods would be shipped from the UK and ordered in time.

I used to work for a local bike shop, and I know they have some serious issues with customer service quality primarily because they don't look after and keep staff. They had a nearly 100% staff turnover in the time I was there, and every time they sacked someone or that person got pissed off and left they took with them knowledge of customers and product knowledge, and sadly that stuff can't be learnt in a few days.

[avgas]

I'd like to see your comments:

Thought I better let this one simmer a bit.....but it seems to have turned into a bit of a shit-fight.
So to pull it back on track....

Customer service does matter - but is not important to survival and growth of a bike shop. Bike shops are becoming the same as any other shops - as the customer base (people who want bikes) increases.
This means they can play by the same rules as other shops. We can have the Wallmarts of the bike industry appear (Operational Excellence) - where they can tell you to go fuck yourself....but you will still buy bikes and bike parts from them as they have other goodness (better range, cheaper prices). At the end of the days these stores are just shifting boxes......and for those of you who believe that this doesn't work go check the top 10 companies in the world. Most of them have this arrangement. Even petrol companies use this approach (more by the fact that they have you by the balls......but you get my drift).

Customer service is important if you don't want to play in this space however. Which is where I believe bike shops need to be aiming. The reason why is quite simple. If I don't like how you treat me, chances are I can find the same bike in another shop. So the only point of differentiation I have with you and all other shops is how you treat me. This tier is called customer intimacy. And it has its advantages. As customization is brought into the sale scope - you can up-sell me to a better model, or ask for any changes I might like. You get close and personal with me - and listen to what I have to say.

The next tier is product leadership. This is reserved for the top cats of the industry (Dues Ex, Customize etc). This area is incredibly hard to maintain, and most bike shops fail in this regard.....but the reward is fantastic. You product has to be the BEST. You have to look down on others, and treat your customers like gods. And they will quite happily pay the extravagant figures you ask for.

So there you have it, customer service is not paramount to survival and growth - but you have to pick how you market will work. Will you simply ramp up you sales by dropping you prices, or maintain your customer base by adding a bit of value? How much value do you want to add? Where do you see yourself?

The diagrams below should help you understand. Its for a supermarket - but you get the idea.

[Quasievil]

Thats a very good post Avgas
To succeed of course customer service is primary, in a course I attended recently you need one or more of these three things to succeed in Business, as you said avgas but in different language (with examples)

Product excellence ............ie Mercedes or perhaps Ipod

In time, in spec, within price....... McDonald's or perhaps toyota

Love............ a Band, or your favorite bike shop

to break it down

Product excellence
Mercedes have fairly much got it nailed , the product is excellent its refined and very well regarded as one of the best cars in the world, yes expensive but its the best (yes somewhat arguable, but use BMW or Rolex watches , you get the point)

In Time, in spec, within price, convenient to buy
McDonald s is a great example, the burgers themselves are kinda average, there are heaps of nicer burgers, burger fuel for example, but Macdonald's have it sussed, crap burgers are readily available, always at the same spec, they are fast, and reasonably cheap.

Love and admiration
You might offer a average product but you are successful because the customers just plainly love you, a good example is a Band, say I dunno U2.....you might love U2 and it wouldn't matter what the new album was like you would buy it because you just love these guys

If you can tick one or two of these boxes (cant have three) you will succeed.

Food for thought if youre starting a business, think about if you can tick one or more of these boxes.

[CHOPPA]

Havnt read much of the thread but from what i can see......

I have a set of Quasimofo gloves and they are the best gloves i have owned, they were not sponsored, I paid for them unlike some other top end gloves I have been given that fell apart so quick, these gloves have remained soft and in great condition. I can honestly say that they have been the best gloves I have owned.

As far as Carver goes, yes he is actually a good c*&t and that is prob why Quasi gave him some gloves to test and if he ever saw him in town im sure he would sit and laugh about all this over a beer.

Carver doesnt take this site very seriously just like the little wanker sidewinder haha all they aim to do is wind people up however they can

[phill-k]

Thought I better let this one simmer a bit.....but it seems to have turned into a bit of a shit-fight.
So to pull it back on track....

Customer service does matter - but is not important to survival and growth of a bike shop. Bike shops are becoming the same as any other shops - as the customer base (people who want bikes) increases.

Have to disagree with you on that statement. You refer to the top ten businesses in the world / service stations / and your diagrams relate to supermarkets, all businesses with low margins high turnover items. These businesses deal in fast selling, everyday items and yes customer service is a minor key to survival, the necessity being just enough to prevent an "opposition" establishing itself. I would venture to say with NZ's small population / marketplace Bike Shops who take on this type of approach will eventually fail.

This means they can play by the same rules as other shops. We can have the Wallmarts of the bike industry appear (Operational Excellence) - where they can tell you to go fuck yourself....but you will still buy bikes and bike parts from them as they have other goodness (better range, cheaper prices). At the end of the days these stores are just shifting boxes......and for those of you who believe that this doesn't work go check the top 10 companies in the world. Most of them have this arrangement. Even petrol companies use this approach (more by the fact that they have you by the balls......but you get my drift).

I don't believe the market in NZ is big enough for a Bikeshop to approach the product they are selling as a high volume low margin product, Wallmart / The Warehouse / Supermarket type operations rely on large turnover of stock, as I said above other aspects to these operations are more important to their survival than Customer service. A business that sells big ticket items in the luxury / non necessity market needs to treat their customers well this is integral to ensuring they return. As an example I am a returning biker, I guess all things being equal I will probably purchase 3 - 5 more bikes in the next years to come, as a bikeshop if you make my purchase an enjoyable experience I will return, argue over a first service bill ($70) and that will be the most expensive piece of negative advertising you will ever do. A happy customer tells about 5 people their experience, a pissed off customer can now go on line (this forum for example) and tell the world.

Customer service is important if you don't want to play in this space however. Which is where I believe bike shops need to be aiming. The reason why is quite simple. If I don't like how you treat me, chances are I can find the same bike in another shop. So the only point of differentiation I have with you and all other shops is how you treat me. This tier is called customer intimacy. And it has its advantages. As customization is brought into the sale scope - you can up-sell me to a better model, or ask for any changes I might like. You get close and personal with me - and listen to what I have to say.

I believe if a BikeShop is to survive as much emphasis needs to be placed on all that is customer service, along with product quality and demand, location, competition, advertising, cost control, any of these items in isolation does not ensure survival, however the absence of any of these will ensure the operation does not survive. Things like product quality and demand actually is an aspect of customer service as is pricing your product to the market.

The next tier is product leadership. This is reserved for the top cats of the industry (Dues Ex, Customize etc). This area is incredibly hard to maintain, and most bike shops fail in this regard.....but the reward is fantastic. You product has to be the BEST. You have to look down on others, and treat your customers like gods. And they will quite happily pay the extravagant figures you ask for.

Agree here but this is the very essence of customer service, but the market size also plays an important role here, if you don't have the numbers of customers with the ability to pay you don't have sufficient profit to cover your costs. NZ is moving further and further away from having a large base of significant earners with the ability to fund high end luxury purchases.

So there you have it, customer service is not paramount to survival and growth - but you have to pick how you market will work. Will you simply ramp up you sales by dropping you prices, or maintain your customer base by adding a bit of value? How much value do you want to add? Where do you see yourself?

The diagrams below should help you understand. Its for a supermarket - but you get the idea.

Not sure how you come to this statement as again your charts are for an operator in a high volume, low margin market where the cost to set up in opposition is immense. I just can't see where you see a market in NZ where a Bikeshop would have a large enough customer base to survive on volume alone.

[avgas]

Have to disagree with you on that statement. You refer to the top ten businesses in the world / service stations / and your diagrams relate to supermarkets.......read the rest of his quote you lazy sods its just below, and very good

Cheers Phill, you have actually opened up to the key point (that I have tried to raise in other threads but been shot down).
However just to clear something up - the top 10 company thing - yes they all move high quantity or have well invested amounts in certain things. The petrol company stuff (not "service" station) I put in there for the context as they have you buy the balls until an alternative comes around, then they will have to compete on price. Wallmart/Warehouses etc are a choice. You choose to buy from them. So in-depth research (fuck knows who would bother) tells us that it is essentially a price war in that area.
Which brings me back to the point you brought up (or I set the trap for - sorry). But NZ is fucking small. If you are going to compete in the low end of the market - and not offer some kind of difference in your stores other than price (with a bad attitude). Your fucked.
People would rather buy off e-bay than you.

So the conclusion (as Phil discovered)
Can you afford to have no service? Can you fight it out in a price war alone?
If so - you don't need customer service.......

[Edbear]

Havnt read much of the thread but from what i can see......

I have a set of Quasimofo gloves and they are the best gloves i have owned, they were not sponsored, I paid for them unlike some other top end gloves I have been given that fell apart so quick, these gloves have remained soft and in great condition. I can honestly say that they have been the best gloves I have owned.

As far as Carver goes, yes he is actually a good c*&t and that is prob why Quasi gave him some gloves to test and if he ever saw him in town im sure he would sit and laugh about all this over a beer.

Carver doesnt take this site very seriously just like the little wanker sidewinder haha all they aim to do is wind people up however they can

Surely, you're not suggesting members actually set out to wind others up on here..???!!!

[carver]

oooh, red rep from bomber

"youre a dick cause you clearly are nothing but a Jealous looser, yes we met recently actually and youre a dick in real like to for the record"

I would like to know when you met me, cause i aint met any kbr's in quite a while...
you know me so well.....

Whats is the brand of leather i wear?

Havnt read much of the thread but from what i can see......

I have a set of Quasimofo gloves and they are the best gloves i have owned, they were not sponsored, I paid for them unlike some other top end gloves I have been given that fell apart so quick, these gloves have remained soft and in great condition. I can honestly say that they have been the best gloves I have owned.

As far as Carver goes, yes he is actually a good c*&t and that is prob why Quasi gave him some gloves to test and if he ever saw him in town im sure he would sit and laugh about all this over a beer.

Carver doesnt take this site very seriously just like the little wanker sidewinder haha all they aim to do is wind people up however they can

Haha, cheers chop, i should catch up with ya sometime when sidewinder is not "greasing" your "linkage"