Revolting teachers!

[avgas]

Ok for AA 4% with Rabo, you're still better off doing it that way than paying it off immediately every month.....
Calculate your IRR, if you can earn a return of more 2.3% you're always better off delaying the payments for your SL.

Great if you can do it.
But human nature says that when that sum gets to anything substantial - you blow it.

However I do also secretly have other investments along these lines. But that money is primarily for our house when we come to buy one. We already have a 20*% deposit (*depending on markets).

It will be about 5 more years of struggle, before I will be able to buy the bikes I want........but by then, I should be so financially secure I will be allowed as many bikes as I want.

Money is a funny game. Sometimes its not a case of being risk adverse, but being consistent and balanced.

[mashman]

http://www2.stats.govt.nz/domino/ext...rs+Price+Index

HTH perhaps now you can flesh out your argument with some facts.

honestly I was trying to read the FACTS, , but for some reason couldn't get past some of the inclusions and exclusions, primarily as they aren't fully listed and may well be things that we all buy, I may be wrong...

Now I see that the CPI isn't used for mickey mouse reasons

"It is used as a measure of inflation, an indicator for monitoring economic and monetary policy, an indicator of the effect of price change on the purchasing power of households' incomes, as a means to adjust benefits, allowances and incomes, and as a price deflator."

Pretty important stuff eh...

"The population coverage of the CPI relates to the expenditure of private, New Zealand-resident households living in permanent dwellings. The reference population covers approximately 98 percent of the usually-resident population. There are no exclusions based on income source or geographic location."

"The HES excludes residents of temporary dwellings and households in very remote parts of the North and South Islands and on offshore islands, including Great Barrier, Kawau, Stewart and the Chatham Islands"

hang on, didn't it just say "There are no exclusions based on income source or geographic location", or is that the 2% they're talking about... they don't say.

"Some types of expenditure are also excluded because their price movements cannot be satisfactorily measured nor can they be related to the price movements of items which are price-surveyed. These include works of arts, illicit drugs, pets and other livestock, gambling, most legal services etc."

but but but, it just said "There are no exclusions based on income source or geographic location"...

There's no definitive exclusions list. And Most legal services have been removed. Why only most? Doesn't say... perhaps it'd send the CPI through the roof...

The last Recommendation almost finished me off "At this point in time, given the balance of users' requirements and Statistics New Zealand's resource requirements, the production of a monthly CPI is a relatively low priority."

Hang on, the purpose of the CPI is "... used as a measure of inflation, an indicator for monitoring economic and monetary policy, an indicator of the effect of price change on the purchasing power of households' incomes, as a means to adjust benefits, allowances and incomes, and as a price deflator." but it has a low priority ...

Oooook, so after reading those facts... Give the Teachers a pay rise and stop trying to use statistics as FACTS (because they aren't) in order to not pay them...

[p.dath]

Well, clearly it doesn't - as there seems to be just as much support for teachers in this forum as people against their stand ...

I took a read over the posts again.

Those people who have said they are teachers, or are one removed from a teacher (their husband, wife, father, mother, etc) seem to support the pay rise. Basically those people most likely to directly benefit from a pay rise for the teachers.

Once that group is removed the support is pretty low.

[p.dath]

But Teachers taking a paycut, inflation/cost of living/levy increases is ok? Why are we paying for MP perks when they don't live up to ANY OF THEIR PROMISES (and only ever make their employers lives harder)? I'd value teachers over MP's every day of the week...

So because MP's get perks the teachers should get a pay rise? That's the worst argument I have ever heard.

Have you seen the huge list of associated allowances teachers get (according to the PPTA demands previsouly posted)? Teachers get perks as well.

[Smifffy]

honestly I was trying to read the FACTS, , but for some reason couldn't get past some of the inclusions and exclusions, primarily as they aren't fully listed and may well be things that we all buy, I may be wrong...

Now I see that the CPI isn't used for mickey mouse reasons

"It is used as a measure of inflation, an indicator for monitoring economic and monetary policy, an indicator of the effect of price change on the purchasing power of households' incomes, as a means to adjust benefits, allowances and incomes, and as a price deflator."

Pretty important stuff eh...

"The population coverage of the CPI relates to the expenditure of private, New Zealand-resident households living in permanent dwellings. The reference population covers approximately 98 percent of the usually-resident population. There are no exclusions based on income source or geographic location."

"The HES excludes residents of temporary dwellings and households in very remote parts of the North and South Islands and on offshore islands, including Great Barrier, Kawau, Stewart and the Chatham Islands"

hang on, didn't it just say "There are no exclusions based on income source or geographic location", or is that the 2% they're talking about... they don't say.

"Some types of expenditure are also excluded because their price movements cannot be satisfactorily measured nor can they be related to the price movements of items which are price-surveyed. These include works of arts, illicit drugs, pets and other livestock, gambling, most legal services etc."

but but but, it just said "There are no exclusions based on income source or geographic location"...

There's no definitive exclusions list. And Most legal services have been removed. Why only most? Doesn't say... perhaps it'd send the CPI through the roof...

The last Recommendation almost finished me off "At this point in time, given the balance of users' requirements and Statistics New Zealand's resource requirements, the production of a monthly CPI is a relatively low priority."

Hang on, the purpose of the CPI is "... used as a measure of inflation, an indicator for monitoring economic and monetary policy, an indicator of the effect of price change on the purchasing power of households' incomes, as a means to adjust benefits, allowances and incomes, and as a price deflator." but it has a low priority ...

Oooook, so after reading those facts... Give the Teachers a pay rise and stop trying to use statistics as FACTS (because they aren't) in order to not pay them...

Considering you couldn't even find a link to it, I'm not surprised you don't understand it.

As you consistently show that you are not prepared to consider views counter to your own, I'm not going to bother to attempt to explain it to you.

Try reading it again, slowly, deliberately & calmly - pretend you are an emotionless statistician.

[gijoe1313]

Well luvverly, just had a poor girl throw up in my classroom, the fountain of spew was quite spectacular! Poor thing, she was so shamed out. But, as I pointed out, we don't do these things intentionally so it's ok.

Thank gosh the rest of the class were mature about it, just moved away and got on with their work!

Was nice waiting for the caretaker to turn up and start sponging it out - lucky thing was it happened near the end of school. If it was during a full period, means for OSH reasons need to evacuate the room and wait until it has been cleaned up.

So ... one stopped fight, one pyromaniac identified, one rescue mission, one barf recovery ... and the dreaded after school meeting (which, like all meetings are ... meeting like!)

[mashman]

Considering you couldn't even find a link to it, I'm not surprised you don't understand it.

As you consistently show that you are not prepared to consider views counter to your own, I'm not going to bother to attempt to explain it to you.

Try reading it again, slowly, deliberately & calmly - pretend you are an emotionless statistician.

lol, aye, I pulled a dedicated 1 page search... but after reading it, albeit emotively, I can see why I persisted in going no further than a single page ...

I do listen to counter arguments, as well as change my mind and admit when i'm wrong, I have no problem with that. But if my opinion doesn't change, it doesn't change for a reason and the ambiguity of that document is a HUGE reason ... I'm a programmer, not a statistician... if the i's aren't dotted and the t's aren't crossed then the calculations being used are open to other variables that could send the results either way. That for me does not make them FACT.

Yes dear, i'll read it Arnie styles... (i wouldn't hold out too much hope though lol) and i'll still want the Teachers to get a pay rise ...

[Smifffy]

lol, aye, I pulled a dedicated 1 page search... but after reading it, albeit emotively, I can see why I persisted in going no further than a single page ...

I do listen to counter arguments, as well as change my mind and admit when i'm wrong, I have no problem with that. But if my opinion doesn't change, it doesn't change for a reason and the ambiguity of that document is a HUGE reason ... I'm a programmer, not a statistician... if the i's aren't dotted and the t's aren't crossed then the calculations being used are open to other variables that could send the results either way. That for me does not make them FACT.

Yes dear, i'll read it Arnie styles... (i wouldn't hold out too much hope though lol) and i'll still want the Teachers to get a pay rise ...

I want them to get a pay rise too. I don't believe that going on strike is the way to go about it.

[piston broke]

[QUOTE=KiWiP;1129863401]No you won't and you know it






5 Remuneration – base rates
HERE IT IS
Claim 5.1 Base scale increase of 4% for 1 year term to Jun 2011
Claim 5.2 An additional 1% employer contribution to Kiwisaver


Claim 8 .1 That laptops and immunisation are fully funded
d 4.2.1


so it's really 5%,and free laptops

[Smifffy]

Is there an upgrade timetable for the laptops, and a minimum spec?

There must also be requisite software to be installed and maintained.

Is internet bandwidth included?

[blossomsowner]

Is there an upgrade timetable for the laptops, and a minimum spec?

There must also be requisite software to be installed and maintained.

Is internet bandwidth included?

sounds good.........

and gijoe sounds like he has an entertaining time at school too.

with all the arguments going on here its very hard to decide who is right??? the nz public is of course. teachers do not need a payrise overall, just some flexibility to reward the good ones and not reward the losers.
And we'll find a way of actually giving them only 20 days annual leave a year like everyone else gets. Make them work in the holidays. I know on here they all say they do but in real life they do whatever the hell they want to, which is not spending all their time at work.
and if they spent less time yakking about bullshit and worked efficiently they could work no more than 40 hrs a week.

Then it may be fair.


Oh and make the class size smaller

[mashman]

So because MP's get perks the teachers should get a pay rise? That's the worst argument I have ever heard.

it'd take it over, "we can't afford it because we're in a recession and we've spent it all on a finance company, but it's cool, you'll get it back... in 3 - 4 years providing ACC or our new thing isn't in the can which means you'll also lose the interest on $2 billion terms and conditions apply... next please". Different view point is all. Why not borrow against it

Have you seen the huge list of associated allowances teachers get (according to the PPTA demands previsouly posted)? Teachers get perks as well.

Yup and i'd like to add to them. Give them the same perks as the politicians (not the booze, drugs and hookers... although it's all kinda educational), although i'm sure they'd appreciate the travel subsidy...

[Robert Taylor]

Changed that, although I don't see how the rest of your post added to the context. Just offering the minority opinion .

But Teachers taking a paycut, inflation/cost of living/levy increases is ok? Why are we paying for MP perks when they don't live up to ANY OF THEIR PROMISES (and only ever make their employers lives harder)? I'd value teachers over MP's every day of the week...

And i bet the govt would instantly fold and throw money at the Army if they did... after all they're fighting for democracy and freedom

lol, I live in hope funny that, if we don't get paid well enough by our employer, we're encouraged leave and find another that pays more money... Good job too, we coulda ended up with a closed country

And the rest of the country is not effectively taking a paycut given that the chickens have come home to roost?????????????????????????????????????!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!
Id like to pay myself more but it is just not possible in this current economic environment. GET REAL.

[Robert Taylor]

So because MP's get perks the teachers should get a pay rise? That's the worst argument I have ever heard.

Have you seen the huge list of associated allowances teachers get (according to the PPTA demands previsouly posted)? Teachers get perks as well.

Well I think we are all agreed that most MPs are a waste of space!

[Robert Taylor]

sounds good.........

and gijoe sounds like he has an entertaining time at school too.

with all the arguments going on here its very hard to decide who is right??? the nz public is of course. teachers do not need a payrise overall, just some flexibility to reward the good ones and not reward the losers.
And we'll find a way of actually giving them only 20 days annual leave a year like everyone else gets. Make them work in the holidays. I know on here they all say they do but in real life they do whatever the hell they want to, which is not spending all their time at work.
and if they spent less time yakking about bullshit and worked efficiently they could work no more than 40 hrs a week.

Then it may be fair.


Oh and make the class size smaller

And dont forget the ones that espouse left wing BS, encountered more than a couple in my time at high school. As an unrepentant tory I wasnt about to beat to their shonky drums.