Revolting teachers!

[Squiggles]

I took a read over the posts again.

You missed this one then... or ignored it

Drop all the demands about money, and go back to the table. You'll earn more respect if teachers say what they really want.

What is your opinion on the other claims? Laptops, immunisation, class sizes, professional development, etc

[mashman]

Try reading it again, slowly, deliberately & calmly - pretend you are an emotionless statistician.

I read the Guidelines on reading the data, but I didn't read the rest of the document, sorry, but from what I read it certainly didn't seem like a good idea to validate a decision on salary increases using the CPI methodology, let alone the CPI data... finally got to the end and read:

"Usage and Limitations of the Data ..The CPI is a measure of price change for households only, it should not be used or interpreted as an inflation measure for the economy as a whole."

"The CPI is based on a purposive sample of goods, services and outlets, not on a statistical sample. This means that judgement, rather than a statistical technique, was used to select the goods, services and outlets that are price surveyed. Due to the sampling methodology sample errors cannot be calculated."

The Secretary of Education has used CPI research to validate the decision, not to give teachers more money?

At the end of the day, if the pay rise isn't given, nothing will change. I've gotten real

[Robert Taylor]

I read the Guidelines on reading the data, but I didn't read the rest of the document, sorry, but from what I read it certainly didn't seem like a good idea to validate a decision on salary increases using the CPI methodology, let alone the CPI data... finally got to the end and read:

"Usage and Limitations of the Data ..The CPI is a measure of price change for households only, it should not be used or interpreted as an inflation measure for the economy as a whole."

"The CPI is based on a purposive sample of goods, services and outlets, not on a statistical sample. This means that judgement, rather than a statistical technique, was used to select the goods, services and outlets that are price surveyed. Due to the sampling methodology sample errors cannot be calculated."

The Secretary of Education has used CPI research to validate the decision, not to give teachers more money?

At the end of the day, if the pay rise isn't given, nothing will change. I've gotten real

There are thousands upon thousands of small businesses in NZ that would like to give their most productive and valued employees a wage rise ( including my business ) But in the current economic environment that is just not possible. Given all of that I started off with very little respect for the militant cloud cuckoo land mentality of the PPTA, now that respect is absolutely zero and Im confident that Im talking for a good many New Zealanders.
Good teachers may indeed deserve more money but many also dont.

[gijoe1313]

Hey, the first I knew of this brouhaha was when I came back from three weeks off due to High BP ... and suddenly there was this PPTA strike, which was voted on by the teachers. I didn't even get to vote since I was blithely away in la-la-land (riding bikes to calm the nerves).

Soon as I found out about it, I knew it was going to be a case of the bovine defecate hurled at an oscillating machine!

Oh yeah, next week is school hols - I intend to make the most of it by riding. And riding lots gratias to the NZ taxpayer since they fund my pootles and other errant and eccentric proclivities!

I think I already mentioned it, but if I get a 4% increase, that'd only be spent on bikes, anything left over will be on women, ginger beer and song! (I'm a teetotaller!) Anything else left after that will be merely wasted!

[SVboy]

I took a read over the posts again.

Those people who have said they are teachers, or are one removed from a teacher (their husband, wife, father, mother, etc) seem to support the pay rise. Basically those people most likely to directly benefit from a pay rise for the teachers.

Once that group is removed the support is pretty low.

As usual, you miss the point. There is a raft of conditions, as well as a pay rise being fought for. You seem somewhat bitter about the whole process, and sooooo lacking in real perspective as to what it takes to succeed or even cope being a secondary teacher. [Despite your secondhand "experience" from your ex].
Perhaps it is time for a career change for you so you can bask in the huge dollars, light workload and endless holidays that you seem to think teaching is about.

[Number One]

so 25-35 /hr isn't enough
i don't doubt there real value (could be a lot better),but all in all,tis a very good wage for nz

Piffle...I find it ridiculous that I get paid quite a bit more than Nurses and Teachers and Police....I would not do any of those 3 jobs for less than I'm currently on...I think it's sad that these professionals aren't better treated. Shit working conditions, little shits to deal with and heck many of the parents aren't a whole lot better.

I salute the teachers of NZ - well the good ones that is...there are few from my days I wouldn't piss on if they were on fire...one in particular who was a dirty filthy pedo!!!

Anyway - I say pay them more...in fact I wonder how much they could have afforded for teacher salaries if they hadn't bailed out all the rich investor pricks down south

BTW on a side note: Perhaps if teachers were paid more, more people would know the difference between there and their!

[oldrider]

Piffle...I find it ridiculous that I get paid quite a bit more than Nurses and Teachers and Police....I would not do any of those 3 jobs for less than I'm currently on...I think it's sad that these professionals aren't better treated. Shit working conditions, little shits to deal with and heck many of the parents aren't a whole lot better.

I salute the teachers of NZ - well the good ones that is...there are few from my days I wouldn't piss on if they were on fire...one in particular who was a dirty filthy pedo!!!

Anyway - I say pay them more...in fact I wonder how much they could have afforded for teacher salaries if they hadn't bailed out all the rich investor pricks down south

BTW on a side note: Perhaps if teachers were paid more, more people would know the difference between there and their!

There is probably nothing standing in your way to "voluntarily" subscribe toward the teachers pay now as matter of personal choice!

Forcing everyone else to make the same noble contribution through compulsory taxation is simply (legal?) extortion!

[Swoop]

Mr John Doe and his cobbers that work at KFC would have had their Backsides booted out the door years ago.

Its education, not bloody monopoly.

Look at the criteria to get a job teaching Vs serving globs of fat through a window though...

that'd only be spent on bikes, anything left over will be on women, ginger beer and song!Anything else left after that will be merely wasted!

As the saying goes "When wine, women and song become too much... STOP SINGING!!".

[gijoe1313]

Oh joy time, got to sit outside the deputy principal's office to await the arrival of aforesaid boy who tried to burn down the class.

Swore black and blue it wasn't him and it was all a stitch up.

Oddly enough, in tutor time just before this meeting - I had the lads who normally sit in that area suddenly point out to me ...

"Sir! This damage is new!"
"Sir! Did so and so did this?"

All without any prompting from me ... amazing how word gets round ... but recognition of tags has done for many a would be graffiti artist!

"Sir! What an idiot to do it with a lighter! Shoulda used a marker like the rest of us!"

Ahh cherubs ... the ones that fly in hell it seems!

Parents the usual distress and excuses, but finally accepting of what has been done.

Right, what's next for the day? (I'm currently doing internal relief for seniors who all seem to be blithely unaware that they will soon be coshed by external exams!)

[mashman]

There are thousands upon thousands of small businesses in NZ that would like to give their most productive and valued employees a wage rise ( including my business ) But in the current economic environment that is just not possible. Given all of that I started off with very little respect for the militant cloud cuckoo land mentality of the PPTA, now that respect is absolutely zero and Im confident that Im talking for a good many New Zealanders.
Good teachers may indeed deserve more money but many also dont.

You're about to get a tax break, what's the problem lol... I understand that you and the other thousands of honest business people would dearly love to give their "valued" employees a pay rise. I also understand some of the reasons that this may not be possible (higher pricing, recession, being greedy etc...) and I honestly feel for those businesses and that predicament...

But I fully agree with:

Piffle...I find it ridiculous that I get paid quite a bit more than Nurses and Teachers and Police....I would not do any of those 3 jobs for less than I'm currently on...I think it's sad that these professionals aren't better treated. Shit working conditions, little shits to deal with and heck many of the parents aren't a whole lot better.

I salute the teachers of NZ - well the good ones that is...there are few from my days I wouldn't piss on if they were on fire...one in particular who was a dirty filthy pedo!!!

Anyway - I say pay them more...in fact I wonder how much they could have afforded for teacher salaries if they hadn't bailed out all the rich investor pricks down south

there's no real reason that I should earn so much more than a Teacher or Nurse etc... and I earn less than plenty of IT public servants... Why should an MP, that serves 4 terms (12 years), get a 90% subsidy in travel perks FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIFE??? they shouldn't! You and I are paying for that subsidy and i'd rather it went to the Teachers.

So like yourself Robert, I'm not the only NZ'er thinking that the teachers should get paid. Perhaps the government should ask the country?

[PrincessBandit]

Ah the debate continues.

Once upon a time teachers were pretty much just imparters of knowledge to little minds waiting to be filled up with 'helpful' (and not so helpful) stuff about the world etc.


Nowadays, teachers are expected to be (still) imparters of knowledge plus make sure this is done so that the vast masses of their students are able to pass the necessary exams at the end of it (because we all know that students failing to make the grade is the teacher's fault); mentors; counsellors; behaviour management experts; camp leaders; volunteer coaches and trainers; the list goes on. Not to mention dealing with a fair smattering of ungracious, belligerent, antisocial primates (you should see them swinging on the doors of the department when a simple knock on the door would suffice) in amongst the ones who are actually a joy to work with and teach.

Out in the world if someone got in your face and told you to fuck off they'd probably get a belt around the ear or knuckle sandwich. Try doing that to a school kid, who has a good 6 inches of height and at least 15 kg of weight over you! Then think about biting your tongue, keeping your temper and staying cool and collected while they tell you you can't do jack shit to them 'cos they know their rights...... Happens more frequently than many non-teachers realise.

Ah, the joys. Tis a profession not for the faint hearted.

[gijoe1313]

Ah, the joys. Tis a profession not for the faint hearted.

I am full of admiration for the courage and ability of my female counterparts in this profession. The things that have happened to them due to themselves putting themselves into harm's way to preserve the well being of their charges is deserving of a medal.

For a bloke like me, I know the risks involved - and whenever I hear of a situation that befalls a female teacher at times, I can only blanch. I was often the only male in my block, and I have stressed that if any help is needed, only holler or send a student.

Fortunately a lot of the male students also have sound decent, morals and principles and they have acted to ensure safety of all has occured. I marvel at that!

[oldrider]

Perhaps the government should ask the country?

Why would they do that?

Under MMP they are only responsible to their partners in crime, their current coalition partners!

[avgas]

BTW on a side note: Perhaps if teachers were paid more, more people would know the difference between there and their!

Doubt it.
Considering the fact that education levels have statistically dropped when teachers income has increased.

[avgas]

Ah the debate continues.

Once upon a time teachers were pretty much just imparters of knowledge to little minds waiting to be filled up with 'helpful' (and not so helpful) stuff about the world etc.


Nowadays, teachers are expected to be (still) imparters of knowledge plus make sure this is done so that the vast masses of their students are able to pass the necessary exams at the end of it (because we all know that students failing to make the grade is the teacher's fault); mentors; counsellors; behaviour management experts; camp leaders; volunteer coaches and trainers; the list goes on. Not to mention dealing with a fair smattering of ungracious, belligerent, antisocial primates (you should see them swinging on the doors of the department when a simple knock on the door would suffice) in amongst the ones who are actually a joy to work with and teach.

Out in the world if someone got in your face and told you to fuck off they'd probably get a belt around the ear or knuckle sandwich. Try doing that to a school kid, who has a good 6 inches of height and at least 15 kg of weight over you! Then think about biting your tongue, keeping your temper and staying cool and collected while they tell you you can't do jack shit to them 'cos they know their rights...... Happens more frequently than many non-teachers realise.

Ah, the joys. Tis a profession not for the faint hearted.

Sorry explain to me again how money fixes this?