Revolting teachers!

[cowpoos]

as a teacher i support performance related pay, i work my arse off and i enjoy my job and i know that kids learn stuff in my classes. however, it depends how performance related pay is measured. you can not measure the success of a teacher on ncea results alone. it depends on the starting point for those kids at the start of the year......this often gets forgotten and gets manipulated to proove certain 'facts' for comparison of results and league tables etc etc.

a teacher that gets a top level class has kids come through that would pass the ncea assessments regardless gets a pay rise. However, how much was down to teacher success or student skill that was already there? then the teacher that gets the low ability class doesnt get many kids pass the final assessments but they have all made considerable progress and have many skills they didnt have at the start of the year. which one deserves a pay rise?



its too difficult to get it right i reckon. do we pay doctors based on their success? i dont know. the more people they get better gets them paid more? would they have gotten better all by themselves anyway?..its a huge can of worms

Your right....it would actually be imposable to do.

But having individual negotiated contracts with the school would be the closest to getting it right...especially for the good teachers who add value to their class room abilities, for the benifit of school and students.

[avgas]

i love my job.......i do like it.....i love my job!

Do you have to repeat this 30 times every day like me?
Bugger

[oldrider]

Your right....it would actually be imposable to do.

But having individual negotiated contracts with the school would be the closest to getting it right...especially for the good teachers who add value to their class room abilities, for the benifit of school and students.

The only reason it is impossible is because of the attitude of the majority of those who need a solution!

Conditions of employment must take up a lot of valuable teaching/thinking time, clear that out of the way and the teachers would emerge like flowers in the spring sunshine!

While I confess that it seems to hang heavily over them as millstone around their necks!

It begs the question, "why are they so reluctant to address the problem"!

Perhaps it just the NZ way ..... someone or something to blame! (and they're teaching "that" to our kids!!!!)

[Shorty_925]

If teachers have it so good, how come all the experienced ones are off overseas?

Not all experienced teachers are overseas, but like anyone in any job, they follow where there is better pay (sometimes for worse teaching conditions).

[oldrider]

amognst all of that like every trade, there are a few teachers that are a disgrace and should not be in the job. just like i have experienced shit mechanics and shop assistants etc etc. that deosnt mean that i will never go to a shop again or a garage, and it doesnt mean they are all the same.

i love my job

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

BUT, i love my job!

id still rather not work in a shop!!!!!!!

I really believe you!

Rewrite your post and in between "i love my job" (where the XX's are) and "But, I love my job"!

Write it out how it would read, if it was "good", the way you think it "should" be, in a perfect world!

Seriously, I am not taking the piss, I would like to read that version!

[rapid van cleef]

hahaha

who put all the X's in my post? i certainly didnt!

anyhoo

the point was, how many people actually enjoy what they do for a living?

i think im pretty lucky that way.................but back to the point of the thread.......

quote from moonlighting from the 80's....

more pay less work!
more pay less work!

ra ra ra!

so, today i rode for a few hours, played on me xbox, done some painting round the house..all before 5 pm.......oooh how i love me hols!

now i expect someones going to jump on that cos ive actually admitted that i have spent a day off not working for school!

ah well

[oldrider]

The teacher's and their union are getting so far to the left, they appear to have actually left the planet!

[Banditbandit]

The teacher's and their union are getting so far to the left, they appear to have actually left the planet!

You are kidding (aren't you ... ???) I think they are so middle of the road they are not worth worrying about ... They used to be left-wing ... but not since last century ...

[oldrider]

You are kidding (aren't you ... ???) I think they are so middle of the road they are not worth worrying about ... They used to be left-wing ... but not since last century ...

We all see the game from different sides of the stadium!

I think Rodney Hide is so far left of centre that he looks like a Kiwi version of the leaning tower of Pisa!

Like I said in an earlier post (somewhere) this "country" as a whole leans so far to the left it has almost turned the full circle and is in danger of disappearing up it's own arse!

So many men, so many opinions, I guess!

[StephenG]

...So many men, so many opinions, I guess!

This seems to be something KB has no shortage of.

[Banditbandit]

We all see the game from different sides of the stadium!

I think Rodney Hide is so far left of centre that he looks like a Kiwi version of the leaning tower of Pisa!

Like I said in an earlier post (somewhere) this "country" as a whole leans so far to the left it has almost turned the full circle and is in danger of disappearing up it's own arse!

So many men, so many opinions, I guess!

You're right .. we have very different opionions ...

I think Rodney is so far right he's in danger of dropping off the spectrum ... but hey, I'm a radical anarchist ... so everyone is to the right of me ...

[oldrider]

This seems to be something KB has no shortage of.

You're right .. we have very different opionions ...

I think Rodney is so far right he's in danger of dropping off the spectrum ... but hey, I'm a radical anarchist ... so everyone is to the right of me ...

Don't despair, it's a healthy sign, how boring and retarding, if we all thought the same!

[Number One]

as a teacher i support performance related pay, i work my arse off and i enjoy my job and i know that kids learn stuff in my classes. however, it depends how performance related pay is measured. you can not measure the success of a teacher on ncea results alone. it depends on the starting point for those kids at the start of the year......this often gets forgotten and gets manipulated to proove certain 'facts' for comparison of results and league tables etc etc.

a teacher that gets a top level class has kids come through that would pass the ncea assessments regardless gets a pay rise. However, how much was down to teacher success or student skill that was already there? then the teacher that gets the low ability class doesnt get many kids pass the final assessments but they have all made considerable progress and have many skills they didnt have at the start of the year. which one deserves a pay rise?

Well said! This is what scares me about the 'performance incentive based stuff' who and what will be left to teach those kids that aren't falling into the 'right band of average (or whatever) to be worth your teaching effort' - thankfully there are gems out there...I believe the way Mr OP 'types' he demonstrates that there are some teachers about who care most about what they SHOULD CARE ABOUT MOST...the students learning!

[oldrider]

Well said! This is what scares me about the 'performance incentive based stuff' who and what will be left to teach those kids that aren't falling into the 'right band of average (or whatever) to be worth your teaching effort' - thankfully there are gems out there...I believe the way Mr OP 'types' he demonstrates that there are some teachers about who care most about what they SHOULD CARE ABOUT MOST...the students learning!

Your fears are valid, badly constructed and managed performance based agreements are just as futile as the current teachers mess! (my description)

Performance based agreements are just that "agreements" between two individuals, (manager and employee) anything less is simply not an agreement!

In my own experience, performance agreements are both enjoyable and challenging for both parties but in saying that I acknowledge that New Zealand is extremely short of good managers in this respect! (and many other respects too)

But just because it is difficult to get started doesn't mean it can't be achieved!

Like the man in the cheese adds says, "good things take time"!

[oldrider]

If anybody ever reads this thread again, especially any teachers, I think that there is something that should be made clearer!

Generally we are not criticising the ability of teachers to "teach", or their commitment to their job and their pupils!

It is the teaching professions attitude to industrial relations and employment conditions that is being criticised.

Personally I do not profess to be able to be a competent teacher but I have a lifetime of experience in industrial relations both as a union member and in management.

IMHO the state school teachers have abdicated their responsibility for negotiating and settling their own conditions of employment to an inferior body of people and then pay them handsomely a (tax) fee for their incompetence!

The evidence of the poor result is the constant bleating of the teachers about their dissatisfaction with those results!

That is the basis of my criticism of state school teachers, not their teaching ability or their commitment to their students! (FWIW)